Talk:Water resources/Archive 1

Archive 1

Factual basis?

World-wide, crops irrigated by ditches use 70% or more of available water. Changing to dry-land crops and sprinkler or drip irrigation can reduce agricultural water use by 60 to 90%.

What is the factual basis for this statement? Sure you can switch to dry land but with a corresponding drop in production. True - ditches are not the most efficient, but 60 - 90% reduction in water use?!!

H2O 20:16, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I read that statement as saying that one can choose to grow crops that need less water - for example millet or sorghum instead of rice. This wouldn't necessarily reduce the profuction because some crops are more efficient at utilizing water than others. This would certainly reduce the water demand but I think farmers would only choose to do this if there was an incentive. The incentive could be due either to government policy or to high water prices.

However, it would probably be easier to change the irrigation systems to reduce water than to change the crops.

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Many authorities say that the way to stop these abuses is simply to charge users the true costs of the water they use. Almost all areas subsidize farm and industrial uses of water by over-charging residential uses.

Another questionable statement. H2O 20:22, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)

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Why a redirect from Drinking water to this article? If anybody makes an article on Drinking water, please add nl:Drinkwater, Thanx Ellywa 09:11 20 May 2003 (UTC)

"In the Middle East, many of the wars, notably the Six-Day War, have been disputes over water. These are expected to escalate as industry and population increase in the region. In areas where law is less respected than in the U.S., we can expect either violence, or poverty."
The last sentence appears highly Americocentric, and perhaps biased, thus violating the doctrine that the point of view should be neutral. -- Lord Emsworth 01:31, Dec 19, 2003 (UTC)

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What is the Rocky Mountain Trench??? I googled it and came up with a valley system extending from northern Montana north to the Yukon. Dam & flood it -- sounds like a pipe dream to me. Got references? Maybe a NAWAPA website? --Vsmith 20:42, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

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Suggest second sentence redundant... this is covered at Water#Water.27s_effect_on_life. Believe the phrase "recreational and environmental" better rendered as "cultural, recreational and aesthetic" The environmental link here goes to a blanket statement of what the environment is... but not its significance to people. This allows managable categories within which possible water use conflicts can be put. Cultural allows a broader discussion. eg Indian practices re Ganges and other festivities around the world Recreational should be obvious... but could include for example, restriction of use on house boat owners and skiers using a reservoir vs irrigators. Aesthetic. Preserving for posterity, for its own value. The picture in the section Environmental can hardly be a "natural wetland" with a house and clipped lawn to the left, however it can be aesthetic.

I think a large part of the second half of Water might be more usefully placed in water resources... leaving the water page to define the more physico chemical aspects - don't forget to check out Hydrosphere and Biogeochemistry

Thoughts while im here... might help to have salination. Ie where irrigation water is made salty by one set of users before passing it on to the next set... either thru irrigation practices or agricultural practices. More needs to be said about industrial contamination and disposal.... water reuse and recyling. Will try to get back to these points. Is this discussion dead? Ribosome 16:20, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Developing World

I'm currently enrolled in an environmental politics course; I'm going to try to dig up some resources from that course on water in the developing world. It's an enormous problem there; this page needs more international focus. Take a look at this brochure from the 2003 "International Year of Freshwater."

I've added the {{limitedgeographicscope}} template to this effect to attract more editors and attention. — mark ✎ 16:50, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Using new technologies And designs to create best future satisfactory condition and apply water to all area which are feels water scarity in all over wrold and also distribute water to requirements area. Viren 1998 (talk) 16:07, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

I do work on water management system to make a single area having own capability to R cube of water Viren 1998 (talk) 16:09, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

NPOV tag

I just added {{NPOV}} to the top of this article. Sections headers like "The problem" and "The result" are giant red flags. Mainly, though, none of the claims are attributed. For example, "One part of the solution is conservation": says who? Anyway, I don't have time to work on fixing it now; perhaps someone else will come along and do it. dbenbenn | talk 14:20, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

I agree with the "red flags". Looking at the history, I see the article has retained its basic form, with these headings, since its inception. The time is ripe for the equilibrium to be punctuated. Who's with me? Daniel Collins 15:08, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

I guess someone should come up with a new outline. If we keep the theme of the first sentence that "Water Resources are sources of water beneficial to humans", then we could go:

• Sources of Fresh Water
  • Surface Water
  • Sub-Surface Water
  • Desalinization
• Threats to Sources of Fresh Water
  • Depletion of Underground Acquifers
  • Polution
• Uses of Fresh Water
  • Agricultural
  • Industrial
  • Household
• Areas with an Imbalance between Supply and Demand
• Methods to Increase Supply
• Methods to Decrease Demand
• Dometic

I'm just doing this to get things moving. Feel free to do what you want to it. Toiyabe 23:30, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Nice. I would be inclined to actually start a new entry on water resources planning or management, which would deal with the last three points you make, but not until we have this one down. Daniel Collins 00:35, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

OK, I made a first revision. The revision was very lossy. If folks like the direction I went, then we should try to get more information back out of the original. I think this page went wrong because it started out as a "Drinking water" article. Thats what all the interwiki links were to. I ommited those links, so someone should create a "drinking water" article and add those links back in. Toiyabe 18:37, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

Great job! The direction is fine with me. I wish I had time currently to contribute. We can bring back elements of the ommitted text in steps - in essence, it is valuable. I would say the NPOV tag can go. What do you think Dbenbenn? Daniel Collins 18:41, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

Photo op

If the world's supply of water was 1 cup, the amount of fresh water available to us would be 1.5 mL, or 3/4 of a thimble full. Any chance of someone setting up a photo of this comparison for this article? --brian0918™ 29 June 2005 02:41 (UTC)

How about a bucket (10 liter or 2.5 gallons) full of water and a glass (300 ml = 1 1/4 Cup (unit)) of drinking water on the rocks (2/3 ice)? Common Man 09:45, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

I would say that either example would get the point across. WaterGuy

salt water irrigation

There are a number of journal articles on the use of salicornia and aquaculture to green costal deserts adn make cooking oil and animal feed. There is however, no wikipedia article. Would such information belong here, or elsewhere? SiDNEy 21:02, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

It would belong elsewhere but a link to it belongs here. Fred Bauder 22:41, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Water cycle for AID

This article's companion, water cycle, has been nominated for the Article improvement drive. I encourage those interested in water resources to head on over to vote. Cheers, Daniel Collins 18:59, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Water and Conflict

The water conflict section is considerably lacking. I'm going to try and add to it in the next couple of days. First off though, I have a problem with 'Well-poisoning' being included as an example of conflict over water, considering that this is now regarded as more of an accusation than a true conflict over water. As well, the root of the problem seems to be anti-semitism, and not water per se. Also, I'm thinking of changing the Water and Conflict section to Water and Security, so that other security issues, such as threats to health and livelihoods can be added here as well. I can then link main articles on sanitation and drinking water, for example. Any thoughts?

Sarawickert 19:09, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

References

When citing my sources, I realized that most of the refernces already on this page do not actually refer to specific areas of text. I'm not sure what to do about this. I will continue working on the article and try to fix up some of the references if I can. Any advice would be appreciated.

Sarawickert 21:44, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

You can add {{citations}} if you like, perhaps in the refs section. Richard001

I added a reference related to the global distribution of the world's fresh water but I am unsure if I did it adequately. It is based on the text posted on http://www.greenfacts.org/en/water-resources/index.htm#2 which is in turn based on the 2006 report "Water, A shared Responsibility, The United Nations Water Development report 2" which quotes Data from Shiklomanov and Rodda, 2003. StephanieM (talk) 16:25, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Lead

Too short. 3 paragraphs would be a good length for a 30kb article. Someone coming here should be able to get a good grasp of the issue without having to read past the lead. Richard001 01:33, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Delisted GA

While this is an interesting and promising article, I have delisted it as a Good article because I believe it does not meet the current GA standards. Specifically, the article lead does not comply with the guidance on WP:LEAD: it should not be an introduction to, but a summary of, the article, and should mention all major points covered by the body. In addition, it contains significant gaps in its referencing and would benefit from a copyedit (particularly with a view to merging all those one-sentence paragraphs into the surrounding prose). Once these issues have been addressed, please feel free to renominate the article at WP:GAN. If you feel I have made an unfair or incorrect assessment, the article can be listed at WP:GAR for scrutiny from other GA reviewers. Regards, EyeSerene^TALK 11:32, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Missing Topic : Sewage Reclamation

There are several means of obtaining "fresh" or potable (fit for human consumption) water from readily available non-potable sources. This subject becomes particularly interesting in the instance of coastal populations.

These two methods are desalinization and sewage reclamation (generally combined with natural percolation from a lake bed or drain field to the local aquifer). I got to this article in a search for an economic comparison of these two means -- which, it seems to me, definitely should appear in this article.

For those of you who are squeamish about sewage reclamation -- you might NOT want to read on ....

If you think about it, a human being breathes a host of dangerous chemical pollutants and some biopollutants during respiration, which are then (if not already absorbed in the lungs) expelled from the lungs into the gastrointestinal system, where they JOIN the nice, "clean" bottled water which he has been swilling all day at great cost. Water from a source involving sewage reclamation is thus NOT a cause for knee-jerk, reckless, irresponsible and emotional repulsion or concern.

I say "clean" above, since some bottled waters are not that clean at all -- it turns out that some plastic bottles are sources of chemical contamination. . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.63.237.3 (talk) 14:15, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

I would have thought that a more interesting way of comparing these two technologies would be to look at their environmental cost in terms of energy, the production of which itself uses a large amount of resources (including water in most cases).Jimjamjak (talk) 14:51, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Groundwater

"Sub-Surface water, or groundwater, is fresh water located in the pore space of soil and rocks. It is also water that is flowing within aquifers below the water table." This definition is not clear. As far as I understand, groundwater is fresh water that is located in pores and fissures of rocks, soil and sediments. This is the case whether or not the water flows i.e. in permeable rocks where there is a hydrostatic gradient, or in non-permeable porous rocks (such as some clay-rich sediments, which may have high porosity but low permeability). Jimjamjak (talk) 15:15, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

this is very important click here!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.95.88.203 (talk) 14:49, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Ground water may or may not be fresh and may or may not flow. However ground water which is locked so tightly that it does not flow at all is rather irrelevant. Fred Talk 14:06, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

We need

I think we need a separate article on the business of water distribution and how it is handled in different countries. Thoughts? Mr. IP (talk) 23:28, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps an article on utilities, water and sewer? Fred Talk 14:07, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

I found Water industry which seems to cover the subject. Odd title though. Fred Talk 14:10, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Article incomplete

Water may also be obtained from animals, plants. See drinking water article. Also add some schematics, pictures from that article here. Also add info how water can be obtained from these places (eg by wells, solar stills, ...) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.64.197.28 (talk) 14:00, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

dsdds

walng ganun —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.213.126.25 (talk) 23:55, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Other languages

This article is also available in Bengali, but it is not mentioned.117.194.232.175 (talk) 16:32, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

IWMI image

When someone gets a chance, could they load up the IWMI image concerning water scarcity across the world, and remove the IWMI watermark and labeling. I'd do it but my GIMP is all funky right now. Maybe also change the font or something. This is a great image and I don't think any of us want to risk losing it to protocol. Then someone can go ahead and remove the speedy tag. If you've got the time, you could also change the colors too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.138.64.212 (talk) 17:25, 1 April 2009 (UTC) poo70.26.155.52 (talk) 00:47, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

With the changes to Planetary boundaries ... Add "Consumption of water and the global hydrological cycle is a Planetary boundaries metric.".

• Boundary issue Freshwater consumption
• Suggested indicator Consumption of water and the global hydrological cycle
• Suggested limit 4000 km³/yr of runoff resources

Add "Consumption of water and the global hydrological cycle is a Planetary boundaries metric.", but also other wp article might be drinking water/potable water (consumption), water crisis, and fresh water. 99.112.215.132 (talk) 17:59, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Still no reason for inclusion, and, even if there were a reason, it shouldn't be both here and in "water crisis". — Arthur Rubin (talk) 18:18, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

ÂůŔŪǣǢBold text — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.253.128.220 (talk) 07:39, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Section on water shortages needs references

This section here on water shortages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_resources#Water_shortages sounds interesting but it is not citing any sources whatsoever. We might have to delete this part if no sources can be provided? EvM-Susana (talk) 19:38, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Dr. Roumasset's comment on this article

Dr. Roumasset has reviewed this Wikipedia page, and provided us with the following comments to improve its quality:

Change following paragraphs as shown in the subsequent paragraphs:

Around fifty years ago, the common perception was that water was an infinite resource. At that time, there were fewer than half the current number of people on the planet. People were not as wealthy as today, consumed fewer calories and ate less meat, so less water was needed to produce their food. They required a third of the volume of water we presently take from rivers. Today, the competition for water resources is much more intense. This is because there are now seven billion people on the planet, their consumption of water-thirsty meat and vegetables is rising, and there is increasing competition for water from industry, urbanisation biofuel crops, and water reliant food items. In the future, even more water will be needed to produce food because the Earth's population is forecast to rise to 9 billion by 2050.[8] An additional 2.5 or 3 billion people, choosing to eat fewer cereals and more meat and vegetables could add an additional five million kilometres to the virtual canal mentioned above.

Around fifty years ago, the common perception was that water was an abundant resource. At that time, there were fewer than half the current number of people on the planet. People were not as wealthy as today, consumed fewer calories and ate less meat such that less water was needed to produce their food. They used a third of the volume of water we presently take from rivers. Today, the competition for water resources is much more intense. This is because there are now 7.4 billion people on the planet whose consumption of water-thirsty meat and vegetables is rising, and there is increasing competition for water from industry, urbanisation biofuel crops, and water reliant food items. In the future, even more water will be needed to produce food because the Earth's population is forecast to rise to 9 billion by 2050.[8] An additional 2.5 or 3 billion people, choosing to eat fewer cereals and more meat and vegetables could add an additional five million kilometres to the virtual canal mentioned above.

In some areas of the world, irrigation is necessary to grow any crop at all, in other areas it permits more profitable crops to be grown or enhances crop yield. Various irrigation methods involve different trade-offs between crop yield, water consumption and capital cost of equipment and structures. Irrigation methods such as furrow and overheadsprinkler irrigation are usually less expensive but are also typically less efficient, because much of the water evaporates, runs off or drains below the root zone. Other irrigation methods considered to be more efficient includedrip or trickle irrigation, surge irrigation, and some types of sprinkler systems where the sprinklers are operated near ground level. These types of systems, while more expensive, usually offer greater potential to minimize runoff, drainage and evaporation. Any system that is improperly managed can be wasteful, all methods have the potential for high efficiencies under suitable conditions, appropriate irrigation timing and management. Some issues that are often insufficiently considered are salinization of groundwater and contaminant accumulation leading to water quality declines.

In some areas of the world, irrigation is necessary to grow any crop at all; in other areas it permits more profitable crops to be grown or enhances crop yield. Various irrigation methods involve different trade-offs between crop yield, water consumption and capital costs of equipment and structures. Irrigation methods such as furrow and overhead sprinkler irrigation are usually less expensive but are also typically less efficient, because much of the water evaporates, runs off or drains below the root zone. Other irrigation methods considered to be more efficient include drip or trickle irrigation, surge irrigation, and some types of sprinkler systems where the sprinklers are operated near ground level. These types of systems, while more expensive, usually offer greater potential to minimize runoff, drainage and evaporation. Any system that is improperly managed can be wasteful; all methods have the potential for high efficiencies under suitable conditions, appropriate irrigation timing and management. Some issues that are often insufficiently considered are salinization of groundwater and contaminant accumulation leading to water quality declines.

The only known example of an actual inter-state conflict over water took place between 2500 and 2350 BC between the Sumerian states of Lagash and Umma.[24] Water stress has most often led to conflicts at local and regional levels.[25] Tensions arise most often within national borders, in the downstream areas of distressed river basins. Areas such as the lower regions of China's Yellow River or the Chao Phraya River in Thailand, for example, have already been experiencing water stress for several years. Water stress can also exacerbate conflicts and politicaltensions which are not directly caused by water. Gradual reductions over time in the quality and/or quantity of fresh water can add to the instability of a region by depleting the health of a population, obstructing economic development, and exacerbating larger conflicts.[26] An early example of an inter-state conflict over water took place between 2500 and 2350 BC between the Sumerian states of Lagash and Umma.[24] More recent international conflicts, e.g. in the Middle East, have been documented and analyzed using game theory.[25] Water stress has more often led to conflicts at local and regional levels.[26] Tensions arise most often within national borders, in the downstream areas of distressed river basins. Areas such as the lower regions of China's Yellow River or the Chao Phraya River in Thailand, for example, have already been experiencing water stress for several years. Water stress can also exacerbate conflicts and political tensions which are not directly caused by water. Gradual reductions over time in the quality and/or quantity of fresh water can add to the instability of a region by depleting the health of a population, obstructing economic development, and exacerbating larger conflicts.[27] Note insertion of new reference 25 between Rasler and Wolf as shown: 24. Rasler, Karen A.; Thompson, W. R. (2006). "Contested Territory, Strategic Rivalries, and Conflict Escalation".International Studies Quarterly 50 (1): 145–168. doi:10.1111/j.1468-2478.2006.00396.x. 25. Just, Richard; Netanyahu, S. (Eds.), 1998. Conflict and Cooperation on Trans-boundary Water Resources. Boston: Springer. 26. Wolf, Aaron T (2001). "Water and Human Security". Journal of Contemporary Water Research and Education 118: 29.

New paragraph at the beginning of last section (Economic considerations): Economically optimal groundwater extraction rates maximize the discounted sum of net benefits. Where aquifer stocks are initially abundant, optimal extraction typically involves extracting more than groundwater recharge until stocks are depleted to their steady state levels, which is typically the point of maximum sustainable yield for coastal aquifers due to salinization. Conservation is warranted even during the period of drawdown, however, e.g. by facing consumers with second-tier water prices that are equal to the full marginal cost of extraction, including the lost value to future consumers. (First-tier prices can often be lowered below current levels.)[30] Inasmuch as demand increases over time, increasing investments in water substitutes such as desalination and wastewater recycling are eventually warranted.[31] Where groundwater is being gradually depleted and surface water supply remains constant, optimal conjunctive use involves decreasing the area serviced by groundwater and increasing that served by surface water.[32]

30. Roumasset, James; Wada, Christopher, 2015. "Ordering extraction from multiple aquifers," Chapter 3 in Routledge Handbook of Water Economics and Institutions. New York: Routledge. 31. Roumasset, James; Wada, Christopher, 2015. "Integrating demand management with development of supply-side substitutes," Chapter 4 in Routledge Handbook of Water Economics and Institutions. New York: Routledge.

32. Roumasset, James; Pongkijvorasin, Sittidaj, 2015. "Ordering extraction from multiple aquifers," Chapter 5 in Routledge Handbook of Water Economics and Institutions. New York: Routledge.

We hope Wikipedians on this talk page can take advantage of these comments and improve the quality of the article accordingly.

Dr. Roumasset has published scholarly research which seems to be relevant to this Wikipedia article:

• Reference : James Roumasset & Christopher Wada, 2012. "The Economics of Groundwater," Working Papers 201211, University of Hawaii at Manoa, Department of Economics.

ExpertIdeasBot (talk) 16:54, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

I don't know if anyone took action after this review from 2016? I didn't find it all that helpful as it's a lot of text and very few inline citations. But perhaps it was already dealt with in 2016. EMsmile (talk) 12:19, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Removed further reading list

I don't think we need this further reading list, if any of them should be cited then include them as normal references:

• Pearce, Fred When the Rivers Run Dry: Water—The Defining Crisis of the Twenty-First Century Beacon Press, 2006, ISBN 0-8070-8572-3 ISBN 978-0-8070-8572-1
• Sustaining Water for All in a Changing Climate The International Bank for Reconstruction and Development-The World Bank, 2010.
• The World Bank on private water operations in rural communities The World Bank, 2010.
• The World Bank on public-private water mechanisms for urban utilities The World Bank, 2009, ISBN 978-0-8213-7956-1.
• Vazken Andréassian and Jean Margat, Rivers and Rivals. Quae publishing, Versailles, 2012, ISBN 978-2-7592-1706-9.

EMsmile (talk) 12:17, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

I agree. Suggest they be removed - the record will still be here on this talk page  Velella  ^{Velella Talk}   10:49, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

done. EMsmile (talk) 08:07, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Suggestion to cull content under "water stress" and move to water scarcity article

I think we should cull content under the section "water stress" and move it to the main water scarcity article. Otherwise we have too much duplication of content. EMsmile (talk) 15:19, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

I've made the proposed changes now. EMsmile (talk) 12:17, 2 December 2020 (UTC)