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Per WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE, the infobox is for summarising key facts from the article, we don't write the article in the infobox and the article should remain complete without the infobox. The commanders field of the infobox is for key or significant commanders/leaders, as supported by the body of the article -ie the body of the article should evidence why they were a key or significant commander. Where Trump was recently added to the infobox, I have reverted the addition with the edit summary: Per WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE - the article does not support inclusion of Trump - ie the article does not mention Trump at all, let alone evidence that he was a key or significant commander/leader. Tony Blair is similarly not mentioned in the article at all. John Howard is at least mentioned in the article. Whether this mention is sufficient to support his inclusion as a key or significant commander/leader is a reasonable question. I have no significant issue with his removal by Nick.mon based on this being a single passing mention. As well as Trump, Nick.mon has also added Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and Mullah Omar, which are also not supported by the body of the article. P&G tells us that an article should be complete within its self. A link is neither a source nor a substitute for content in the article. A name in the infobox unsupported by the body of the article fails to tell the reader why they are a key or significant leader/commander in the context of the article. It is a disservice to our readers. Cinderella157 (talk) 03:42, 13 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
Thank you for your clear explanation. I understand your point of view, supported by Wikipedia's policy, but I think we should also be a bit more flexible, otherwise we could give a distorted views to readers. I mean, Trump was president during the peak of US fight against ISIL, I don't know why he isn't mentioned at all in the article, but I think he should be. Omar was the leader of Afghanistan during the beginning of the war, while al-Baghdadi was the main leader of ISIL during its peak, I think that if we mention Talibans and ISIL in the infobox, it would be useful to readers to mention also their respective leaders. Regarding Howard I think that listing him in the infobox is a bit confusing. Australia played an important role in the fight against terrorism, but not so different than the one of UK, Italy, France or Germany. Moreover he's mentioned only once ("Howard stated that Australia would invoke the ANZUS Treaty along similar lines."). Is it enough to list him among the main commanders? I fear it's not. -- Nick.mon (talk) 09:19, 14 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
A name in an infobox without any context in the article to evidence why they are considered key or significant commanders/leaders is meaningless. Trump being president at a particular time does not ipso facto make him key or significant in the context of this article. Compare his lack of mention with Bush and Obama, who are clearly key and significant, as evidenced by the article. If those you would add are indeed key and significant, then the course is clear - edit the article such that the how and why they are key and significant are evidenced by the article. Then, their addition to the infobox will actually be meaningful. [W]e don't write the article in the infobox and the article should remain complete without the infobox. As to Howard, I have no issue with his removal (as should be clear from my earlier post). I have only stated that there is at least some justification for his inclusion per the article, as opposed to those for which there is no justification within the article. Cinderella157 (talk) 11:48, 14 April 2024 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 3 months ago7 comments5 people in discussion
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
Donald Trump was president of the United States during this period. Yet his predesscor and successor are both on the list of "Commanders" he isn't. Please add him. 207.179.146.234 (talk) 11:44, 19 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
I’m not sure how non EC users are supposed to do this? Is it not right they’re not meant to engage in talk page discussion either? (Rendering it impossible). Or is that relating to the Israel-Palestine conflict only? Yr Enw (talk) 18:18, 19 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Non-ECP may engage in discussion when article is ECP protected but conduct on a TP must not be disruptive. The Israel-Palestine conflict is an exception. Cinderella157 (talk) 22:38, 19 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
I agree. Its dishonorable to deny the fact he was our Commander in Chief. This needs to be corrected. I dont care what your political affiliation is the military opperated under his command for four years, get over it. 104.151.212.12 (talk) 03:59, 21 May 2024 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 7 days ago8 comments3 people in discussion
Skitash, Per MOS:CAPS we do not cap a word of phrase unless this is consistently done in sources. The ngram here indicates this is not the case. We do not give particular weight to official sources. Furthermore, per MOS:EXPABBR we do not capitalise a term when it is used to introduce an initialism - though some styles do. By the evidence of usage we should not be capitalising this term. Cinderella157 (talk) 09:21, 14 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
I wonder if we renamed the article Global War on Terrorism (as in, the proper noun referring to the actual US-led operation), whether that would eliminate this problem. Uncapitalised "war on terror" looks really weird, but understand if there is no appetite to dredge this argument up yet again. But I also dont think the ngram is a good indicator of what we should use, as all it really shows is people don’t tend to use capitalisation when they type. Yr Enw (talk) 19:52, 24 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Per MOS:CAPS, we avoid unnecessary caps and determine what is necessary by looking at usage - across a wide sample of sources. If people don’t tend to use capitalisation when they type [this], then capitalisation is not necessary. Changing the article title would not change how we should capitalise global war on terror. Cinderella157 (talk) 00:22, 26 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
The criteria given in MOS:CAPS is essentially statistical in nature and the typing habits used in sources. Ngrams draw on a large sample set of sources and is free from observer selection bias. It is often used as a tool to determine appropriate capitalisation on WP. Cinderella157 (talk) 22:48, 26 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
I'm surprised this isn't uppercased more in the NGram. It seems so obviously an artificially chosen name for a US-led government initiative that I would be tempted to not only use uppercase but also to put in quote marks. — BarrelProof (talk) 21:36, 5 September 2024 (UTC)Reply
I agree and don’t find the above ngram data convincing enough to follow for this, because sooner or later we will end up not capitalising anything, simply coz people tend not to when using search engines Yr Enw (talk) 06:05, 6 September 2024 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 2 months ago2 comments2 people in discussion
President Trumps name is mysteriously missing from the list as he was President during the War on Terrorism (2017-2021). Are we just erasing history now? 24.181.99.17 (talk) 17:22, 26 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
This is the fourth discussion about this on this talk page. Please engage with the others rather than just posting it as another topic. Yr Enw (talk) 18:58, 26 June 2024 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 1 month ago10 comments6 people in discussion
This is Wikipedia being biased at its best. And before anybody says that this has been discussed before I know that. It's always regarding trump. It is clear bias on editors parts. Because of this, Wikipedia has lost much credibility in the last 5-9 years. How about instead of being a smart a** and quoting some rule that either doesn't apply here or misguided opinion you all just put Trump in and do the job right!? We get it you hate his guts and want to erase him from history. That is unless it is negative article about him. You are censoring information. And you know you are being biased. And yet you hid behind your hypocrisy and talk down to the editors who are actually trying to do the right job. And this is happening all over Wikipedia. I saw a debate on whether or not to call attempt on Trump's life the Trump rally incident 2024 or the assassination attempt of Donald Trump. People were actually saying that it wasn't a attempt on his life! Like what!? What else was it?! A love tap on his ear?! This has got to stop. And I know you all won't pay this any mind. Probably will delete this without responding. Or take some disciplinary action against me, but I don't care anymore. This site has become a total joke. You know it and I know it. Cowards! You are on the wrong side of history. History is not kind to those who attempt to erase or censor information. Totally Biased. Cj7557 (talk) 08:07, 17 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
I have no good faith. You are dodging the topic at hand. How about instead of hiding behind the good faith rule we do what is right. Cj7557 (talk) 20:11, 17 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
Yes it is getting tedious! How about we fix the problem. And people won't keep making new discussions. Stop dodging the real problem of bias. Cj7557 (talk) 20:14, 17 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
There is no reason to start a new discussion when the ones above are still open. If you can’t understand the basic conduct expected on WP, perhaps it’s better to refrain from trying to engage with it until you do. Yr Enw (talk) 05:59, 18 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
I'm not a Trump supporter at all, but it's a bit strange to omit him. Does he not get credit for killing al-Baghdadi? The argument above that we can't mention Trump because he's not in the text is a bit of circular reasoning: We can't mention X because it's not in the text, but X isn't in the text because we didn't put it there. ~~ Jessintime (talk) 23:17, 17 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
I sympathise with the argument for including Trump but, apologies if I’m mistaken, wasn’t the previous reasoning given that the sources don’t include him? Isn’t the text referred to the reliable sources? I had interpreted it as meaning, if we can get some sources together than link Trump to the WoT, then there shouldn’t be a problem including him. Yr Enw (talk) 05:58, 18 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
Here we go again .... Per WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE the infobox is to summarise key facts from the article. The article must evidence why a commander/leader is key or significant in the context of the article and therefore, why they have been included in the article. While a reader may see that a person is a key or significant commander/leader because they are listed in the infobox such a listing alone does not inform the reader why they have been listed. We rely on the body of the article to do this - ie having read the article, the reader will then be aware of why a particular commander/leader has been listed. Of course, what we write in the body must be WP:VERIFIABLE. Also, evidencing that they were key or significant is much more than just a passing mention that they were a commander or leader at a particular time but what they did was actually key or significant in the context of the article - ie it is not simply that they are mentioned in passing. Hence, I would support Biden being removed (per my comment in the section below). The OP is clearly unaware of the prevailing WP:P&G and their conclusions are fallacious. Cinderella157 (talk) 02:30, 19 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 1 month ago2 comments2 people in discussion
I understand why Trump is omitted from the infobox given the other discussions, but is there a reason that we're including Biden? He's mentioned only once in the article, and that's for presiding over the withdrawal from Afghanistan, which he did not initiate. Uhoj (talk) 19:47, 17 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
I have no objection to removing Biden from the infobox. While his inclusion is supported (per WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE because he is mentioned in the body of the article, I am not convinced that the single mention rises to the threshold that he should be included - ie the article does support him as being a commander/leader but does not evidence that he was/is key or significant to the subject of the article. Cinderella157 (talk) 02:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)Reply