Talk:WZTV

1968 or 1969?

WZTV was formerly WMCV-TV. Here is an independent site which lends itself to the 1968 date. It states a certain person, Ken Bramming, was employed by and appeared on the station from October 1968 to November 1969 [1].

After it's cancellation in 1967 Bramming took a radio announcing job, but re-emerged as Dr. Lucifer between Oct. 1968 and Nov. 1969 on WMCV-TV17, and independent station, to host weekend horror movies.

This should provide another source which would not have supplied the Wikipedia clones with an actual sign-on date, but it confirms the station was on the air before 8/5/1969. --Zpb52 05:01, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Fair use criteria

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BetacommandBot (talk) 03:24, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

WP:NOTDIR

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Per WP:NOTDIR: "For example, an article on a radio station should not list upcoming events, current promotions, current schedules, etc., although mention of major events, promotions or historically significant program lists and schedules may be acceptable" The station's current schedule lineup is precisely the kind of information that has no place on a Wikipedia article. - Aoidh (talk) 19:51, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Despite the WP:NOTDIR statement, the information that was reverted from the previous edit of the article was relevant to the station's history, in this case the station's news department. Information on the launches of the morning, 9:00 and 10:00 p.m. newscasts within the news operation section are part of that, so this rule does not apply here. It is best that users have full understanding of WP rules, particularly since many users who edit Wikiproject Television Stations articles interpret rules differently than they should, which could result in unnecessary edit warring that could be prevented by taking into consideration the helpfulness of the edit. If a reversion outdates an article, that's not helpful. If the reversion removes updated historical information, that's not helpful. A lot of the editors who interpret rules too seriously or misinterpret them have caused unnecessary clashes because they may not consider an edit's relevance. TVtonightOKC (talk) 20:10, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

You don't have to copy the same message here and on my talk page. However, your assessment of "the rule does not apply here" is grossly inaccurate; why wouldn't it? Do you have a reliable source that says this the current schedule is historically important? There aren't many situations where that is the case, so I very much doubt it. "The helpfulness of the edit" is an odd choice of words when simultaneously insinuating a lack of understanding of "WP rules", since Wikipedia policy is clear that these schedules are not helpful for a Wikipedia article and do not improve them but rather serve to bloat the article with unnecessary trivia that is better handled elsewhere (such as the station's website). - Aoidh (talk) 20:14, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

The request made for a Third Opinion in regard to this dispute has been removed. Third Opinion, like all other moderated dispute resolution processes, will not accept requests which are pending in other dispute resolution forums or processes such as RFC. If the RFC does not resolve the matter after running its usual course, normally 30 days, then a request for some other form of dispute resolution may be attempted. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 21:46, 7 August 2014 (UTC) (3O volunteer)

The issue regards whether WP:NOTDIR applies to television station articles when making references to when newscasts were launched. Aoidh considers such references that mention an airtime to be a schedule in violation with this rule. Is this the case or is it acceptable for inclusion since it is a description and not a list of when the programs air (as per what had been added to other Wikipedia:WikiProject Television Stations articles in the past) and if so, is it relevant in regards to the history of a television station? TVtonightOKC (talk) 21:53, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

What has been added to other articles is irrelevant, especially when they are added without discussion or consensus and without regard to Wikipedia policy. Other editors have been indefinitely blocked from editing for adding this exact type of information to articles, so the fact that editors have added things to articles previously has no bearing on the appropriateness of doing so. Also, WP:NOTDIR does not say "...unless written in prose." - Aoidh (talk) 05:38, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

• Question: The bot sent me. Is the air time relevant to the topic, and if so, how? (e.g., Time slots for air time are relevant in Nielsen ratings). SW3 5DL (talk) 00:30, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose argument by Aoidh: WP:NOTDIR specifically says that "mention of major events, promotions or historically significant program lists and schedules may be acceptable," Although a standard of what is considered "major" is not explicitly given, local news programming is considered an important aspect of television broadcasting in the United States, so expansions to this programming would be a significant milestone for the station, and it deserving of coverage if it is attributed to a reliable source. WP:NOTDIR is intended to address lists like "News programs: 6 to 9am WIKI-TV Action News Morning, 12:00 WIKI-TV Action News at Noon, 5:00 pm WIKI-TV Action News at 5 etc." without any type of commentary. ViperSnake151  Talk  03:56, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

• Local news programming is important if reliable sources reflect this. Outside of the press releases usually supporting the additions, are there any reliable sources supporting the addition? If not, it's WP:UNDUE as well as inappropriate per WP:NOTDIR. What you're saying is "without any type of commentary" is exactly what was added. Saying "this comes on at this time, and this other one was expanded to this time" without context or sources showing why that's even worth noting is exactly what WP:NOTDIR is meant to address. - Aoidh (talk) 03:59, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

However, the source given does note that no other station in the market airs a 5:30 p.m. newscast (presumably because of national news; we're in central time here). Also, the WP:NOTDIR specifically uses the term "electronic program guide". ViperSnake151  Talk  04:04, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Even ignoring semantics, WP:NOTDIR specifically says uses it as an example (one of several) and spells that out, that's not a definitive wording. Further, the "source" is a copy of a press release, so of course the station is going to suggest that what they are doing is significant in some way, that doesn't mean anything. Do any independent sources note that this schedule is worth noting? - Aoidh (talk) 04:09, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

• Give it a rest - find something better to bicker over. If all of the currently unsourced content were removed, there would not be much left of this article. Start fixing THAT first and the semantics crap will likely resolve itself. --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 03:09, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
• I agree with Aoidh. In matters of due weight, it's best to follow what independent, secondary reliable sources report. If nobody takes the time to note the schedule changes, then it's undue to include this information. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 02:37, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.