Talk:Vol-au-vent

Vols-au-vent are made with puff pastry

It appears from the revision history of this article that it was originally written with "puff pastry" and was changed to "Danish dough" in July 2012. I'm changing it back. If vols-au-vent are anywhere made with Danish pastry, it is the exception rather than the norm. Nor are puff pastry and Danish pastry synonymous, though they are similar in that both are folded repeatedly to yield flaky layers. But Danish includes egg and yeast, and yields a heavier result (not heavy, but heavier than puff pastry). It's doubtful that the classic image of vol-au-vent shown on this page could be achieved with Danish pastry.

I hesitate to revert since a couple of other changes have been made, so I'm just going to revise.

Since the previous citation at epicurious.com is dead (searching vol-au-vent at epicurious turns up zero), I'm replacing it with an alternate source. The source clearly describes vols-au-vent as made with puff pastry, as I'm sure the now defunct epicurious link did. Richigi (talk) 22:19, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

As I was revising, it occurred to me that the July 2012 changes were actually describing danish pastry, including the traditional triangular shape of danish, and the cherry filling common in danish. So, my revision was a bit more than just changing the words "Danish dough" to "puff pastry." Hopefully it's acceptable to everyone; it's not fancy. I'm going to go look at the Danish pastry article... Richigi (talk) 22:52, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

See also list reduction

I reduced the items listed under see also. The list was pretty long for such a stubby topic. Removed: Tea sandwich, Antipasto, Meze, Pasty. Vols-au-vent are hors d'oeuvres made of puff pastry. Tea sandwich and pasty seem to be relative only in the sense that they are also finger food. Antipasto and Meze are meal courses (at the beginning granted), not hors d'oeuvres. I also removed Smorgasbord, but on reflection I'm going to restore it, modified to go directly to the section that deals with branvinnsbord. Richigi (talk) 17:03, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Wrong origin/creator

Vol-au-vents are wrongly attributed to the French pastry-shop owner Antonin Carême (1803-1804). The term "vol-au-vent" appears already 1739 in Marin's book "Le Dons de Comus". Carême was born 1784. The German Wikipedia page states:

Die Erfindung der Vol-au-vents wird in der Populärliteratur oft dem französischen Koch Marie-Antoine Carême zugeschrieben. Danach soll er eine Pastete statt mit Pastetenteig mit einem Blätterteig zubereitet haben; als sein Gehilfe nach ihr sah, habe der ausgerufen: Maître, il vole au vent! („Meister, sie fliegt in die Luft!“), weil aus dem flachen Teig eine turmartige Form entstanden war. Dabei handelt es sich jedoch nachweislich um eine Legende. Der Begriff Vol-au-vent taucht in Frankreich erstmals 1739 in dem Buch Le Dons de Comus von Marin auf, also lange vor Carêmes Geburt.

Maybe someone could translate this into proper English? --Gulliveig (talk) 08:44, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Added info re Les Dons de Comus to this article. I actually used Les Dons as the source; I would've preferred to use the source on the German article (it's third party), but I don't have access to it so I don't know what the author actually had to say on the matter. The question remains if the earlier mention is a vol-au-vent as we know it: Marin does not give a recipe. Richigi (talk) 03:52, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

This is complete nonsense. If Carême (1784-1833) was not the inventor then state who the inventor was. The text in German is completely useless unless translated into English. This is Wikipedia in English and not German. If François Marin's mentiones vol-au-vent in 1739 in his cookbook Les Dons de Comus, then it's clear that Carême was not the inventor of the vol-au-vent if indeed we are talking about the same thing. If Carême were the inventor, it would be anachronistic. Also, it would be nice to mention that vol-au-vent, just like the ones from France, are also popular in the northwest of the Piedmont. I believe they can also be found in Val d'Aosta.

ICE77 (talk) 02:57, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

ICE77, not sure what you mean by "nonsense". While it is clear is that Carême was not the first to coin the phrase, the question of whether or not Marin's vol-au-vent was the same dish as described in this article (and as served by Carême) remains unanswered because, as I pointed out, Marin doesn't give a recipe. The text in this article reflects our uncertainty on the point: it's a fact that Carême is often credited with inventing vol-au-vent; it's also a fact that the term (not the recipe) appears in a work that antedates Carême's birth. As for the excerpt from the German article, I found it eminently useful as it called attention to a weakness in the English article; namely, that it's possible that Carême was not the inventor. Richigi (talk) 00:11, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

The excerpt in German could be useful to you if you can read and understand it. To most people who will read it, the passage will probably be useless because not everybody can read German. Either way, this is the English version of Wikipedia and not the German version. I am well aware of the lack of weaknesses of languages when it comes to expressing specific concepts. Yet, not having a translation in English is not an excuse.

ICE77 (talk) 05:38, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Horrendous photo and vol-au-vent in Piedmont

The main image is gross and disgusting. I hope they do not serve them like that in France. I never saw vol-au-vent in Piedmont of that size and with that filling.

This article does not mention at all that vol-au-vent are a typical appetizer in Piedmont. Since vol-au-vent is something shared by France and Italy across the Western Alps, I can confirm they are never larger than a few inches in diameter and height and they are typically filled with a mix of milk and cheese like fontina. This is what I have seen over the years in the Valli di Lanzo. They look more like the Pakistani chicken patty.

ICE77 (talk) 05:33, 13 April 2021 (UTC)