Talk:Vinland Saga (manga)/GA1

GA Review

I'll be reviewing this page. I enjoyed the anime version of Planetes but I had not heard of this series before. The first thing I ask is that as much of the Japanese text be translated as possible since I don't know a stitch of Japanese. Particularly the references to Amazon.com pages, which shouldn't be very difficult. Keep the Japanese text, but append the English translation in parentheses. Thanks. Wronkiew (talk) 17:52, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

i.e. "ヴィンランド・サガ 1 (1) (少年マガジンコミックス): 幸村 誠: 本: (Vinland Saga 1 (1) (Shonen Magajinkomikkusu) (comic))".? --erachima talk 18:02, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Exactly. If you can find a way to do it without multiple layers of parentheses, that would be better. Also, is the correct translation "comic" or "manga"? Wronkiew (talk) 18:05, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately there's no "eng_title" variable for the web cite template, so I think it's going to have to stay with the parentheses in it unless one of us can think of a better format. And yes, in this case the translation is indeed comic, not manga, as the Japanese text literally reads "comic" (コミック, comikku). ("Magajinkomikkusu" appears to be the name of a particular manga label, incidentally.) Anyway, I think I'm going to wait until you finish making your suggestions before I start fixing anything, since I'm working on some stuff besides just Wikipedia at the moment. Thank you for agreeing to review the page though. --erachima talk 18:15, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

As an update, there is now a trans_title= variable in the citation templates, for just this use. —Quasirandom (talk) 16:39, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Well written (prose)

• [Done] "At this time King Sweyn was drawing near death and there was a succession dispute between his sons Prince Harald and Prince Canute." Verbose, delete "at this time" and rewrite to eliminate "there was". Maybe "death and his sons...were arguing over succession".
• [Done] "The band chances upon a besieged Frankish fortress and makes a deal with the attacking army to work with them in exchange for half the fort's plunder." Not necessary to use "upon" when "on" will do.
• "Askeladd succeeds in obtaining the prince, but is forced once again to flee from Thorkell's larger army." Verbose, replace with "obtains".

  Okay then, "captures" instead of "succeeds in capturing". Wronkiew (talk) 22:50, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

• [Done] "All major characters so far have been of Danish descent, Vikings brought to England to assist King Sweyn's invasion of the country." Avoid statements that will look silly after volume 7 comes out.
• [Done] "Ten years prior to the main Vinland Saga storyline, Askeladd accepted a contract to assassinate Thors, father of Thorfinn." Verbose, replace with "before".
• [Done] "Prior to Thors' defection he works with and highly respects the man, and bears a fondness for his son Thorfinn in the main plot." Replace with "Before".
• [Done] "This switch was caused by author Makoto Yukimura, who found he couldn't keep up a long-term weekly production schedule." Replace contraction.
• [Done] "In volume two, Yukimura's omake is about a research trip he took to Iceland in 2003 prior to beginning the series, and the author's commentary sections in volumes one and three both discuss Yukimura's desire to learn about and portray the daily lives of vikings in addition to their wars and the events of historical chronicles." Replace with before. Also, break up the sentence at "and the author's commentary".
• [Done] "Vinland Saga has been commercially successful in Japan, with combined sales of 1.2 million copies for the first 5 tankōbon and several visits to the top ten manga sales list." Spell out "five".
• [Done] "Two differing editions of volumes 1 and 2 exist, as they were first released under the Weekly Shōnen imprint and then reprinted by Afternoon following the manga's serialization switch." Spell out "one" and "two". Or say "first and second volumes".
• [Done] "As of August 2008, there have been six Vinland Saga tankōbon published in Japan." Avoid saying "there" if it doesn't refer to anything. Maybe "2008, six Vinland Saga tankōbon have been published..."
• [Done] Split long sentences that combine multiple concepts, like this one: "Two primary criticisms were also levied: the reviewer found he had to suspend his disbelief more often than he would have liked to in a historical fiction series and worried that the then-upcoming switch to monthly serialization was a sign that the series production would 'slow to a crawl'."
• [Done] Also this: "In a January 2008 interview, Yukimura revealed that he was inspired to enter the manga industry by reading the manga Fist of the North Star as a boy, and that he had always wanted to produce a series which reflected the same themes of 'strength and justice'."
• [Done] This too: "The manga has not been acquired by any English licensing company and is available in English only via unofficial scanlations, a fact lamented by The Comics Journal in a 2006 article highlighting worthy unlicensed manga and scanlation groups."
• [Done] Capitalization of "Vikings" should be consistent.

Well written (MoS)

• Lead section
  • The first sentence should mention that this is a manga about Vikings. Maybe make the Planetes reference be the second sentence.
  • Remove specialized terminology from the introduction.
    • [Done]mangaka
    • [Done]seinen
    • [Done]tankōbon
  • Some statements need reference citations in the introduction.
    • "a best-seller in Japan"
    • "legendary Jomsviking clan"
    • [Done] "compared by reviewers"
• Layout
  • [Removed-box has been deprecated]Move the Japanese characters box to a section that has Japanese characters.
  • [Done]Eliminate the See also section and move the link to Vinland sagas to the top as a "perhaps you were looking for" link. See Wikipedia:Hatnotes#Two_articles_with_similar_titles.
  • [Done]Move the References section below the Notes section.

*Jargon

• • Provide enough context to understand unfamiliar words on first use.
    • [Done] bishōnen
    • [Done] seinen
    • [Done] tankōbon
    • [Done] omake
    • [Done] scanlations
    • [Done] shōnen
• Words to avoid
  • "It did, however, mention that the "over-the-top" combat scenes detracted from the historical feel." Fails the guideline for use of "however". See Wikipedia:WTA#However.2C_although.2C_whereas.2C_despite. However, you may not need to fix this sentence because it references an unreliable source, see below.

    Now it has "claimed" which is another word to avoid. Wronkiew (talk) 22:50, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Verifiable (references)

• Translate enough of the source citations to allow readers unfamiliar with Japanese to determine what type of source is being referenced. Generally the title and publisher should be enough.

Verifiable (citations)

• "Scanlation Spotlight:Vinland Saga" is not a reliable source, and the content supported by this source is not critical to the article. Remove the source and the content.
• "Vinland Saga is set in England in 1013 AD, the year in which Danish King Sweyn Forkbeard conquered the nation." Needs a reference for the date.
• "The story draws elements from historical accounts of the period such as The Flateyjarbók, The Saga of the Greenlanders and The Saga of Eric the Red." Needs a reference for drawing elements from these historical works.
• Add a reference to the end of the Plot section to indicate where the information came from.
• [Done] "He is half-Danish and half-Welsh, being the son of a Welsh princess captured by a Viking raider." Needs a reference for the ancestry.
• "Bjorn dies in Gainsborough from injuries sustained protecting Prince Canute." Needs a reference for the place of death.
• "Thorfinn is a teenage warrior in Askeladd's company, though he hates his commander for slaying his father Thors and has sworn to kill him in a duel." Needs a reference for his feelings.
• "Thorfinn is a Jomsviking noble through his mother Helga and inherited superb physical talents from his father." Needs a reference for the ancestry.
• "Thorfinn has no explicit historical basis." Needs a reference.
• "Thors is the father of Thorfinn, a Jomsviking general whose phenomenal combat prowess earns him the epithet 'The Troll of Jom'." Needs a reference for the epithet.
• "Thors grows weary of battle after the birth of his children, fakes his own death, and retires to become a pacifist farmer." Needs a reference for faking his death.
• "Before he can arrive at the theater of war he is betrayed by a former comrade, Floki, who hires Askeladd to assassinate him." Needs references for the betrayal and hiring an assassin.
• "Like his son, Thors has no explicit historical basis." Needs a reference.
• "Thorkell is another Jomsviking general, a giant man who loves combat so much that he defects from the Danish army to become a mercenary for the English, believing that fighting his fellow Vikings will give him a better challenge." Needs a reference for the defection.
• "Thorkell's character is Thorkell the Tall, a historical Jomsviking lord who is a mentor to Canute in the Flateyjarbók." Needs a reference for the historical similarity.
• "Canute is the 17-year-old prince of the Danes." Needs a reference for the age.
• "After Ragnar's death, however, he has a sharp reversal of personality, becomes strong and kingly, and develops an ambition to create utopia on earth before God's return." Needs a reference for his ambition.
• "Canute is historical king Canute the Great, the most prominent Danish ruler of England." Needs a reference for the historical similarity.

Images (captions)

• [Done]Put a " " in "volume 1" so the second line doesn't begin with "1".
• [Done]Captions that are not sentences should not end with a period.
• [Done]Rewrite the second caption as: "Vinland Saga's chapter cover art improved between its time as a weekly (top) and a monthly (bottom)." You could also start with: "The detail of Vinland..."

If these issues are fixed then I believe this article will meet the criteria. Until then I'm putting it on hold. Wronkiew (talk) 04:11, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

In the absence of recent edits, I try to fix the issues, as I was not watching this page before. Please extend the deadline for me to do so a bit. G.A.S 15:02, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Question to Wronkiew: given the statement that the series is a best-seller in Japan is referenced in the body, does it need to also be in the lead? My understanding from WP:LEAD is no, as the lead should have no content that's not in the body, with all references in the latter. (Not being argumentative, but there is some confusion over this point.) —Quasirandom (talk) 20:04, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

WP:LEAD says that some statements, need to be referenced in the lead, particularly counterintuitive statements and statistics. Wronkiew (talk) 22:50, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Great job so far, I hope to see some of the final issues addressed so I can promote the article. About the attribution issues, I saw the comments on the discussion page about generic references for plot summaries. I'm uncomfortable with general references for Good and Featured Articles, but I can live with it for minor/in-universe statements. If you feel that an inline citation is unnecessary for any of these, just note that instead of fixing it. Wronkiew (talk) 22:50, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

This article is really close to GA standard but there are a number of unresolved issues. It has been on hold for more than a week and I will have to fail it soon if there is no progress. Wronkiew (talk) 19:33, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I have to decline to promote the article because there has not been any progress on it for several days. It really is very close to the GA standard, but there are a few things left to fix. I am unable to fix them for the reasons I described above. When these issues are addressed, please re-submit it to GAN. Wronkiew (talk) 03:06, 8 October 2008 (UTC)