Talk:Victoria Rooms, Bristol

Potential references

I'm not sure where it could be found, but there is a book called: A History of the Victoria Rooms, The University of Bristol by Little, B (undated). SmartSE (talk) 16:53, 5 January 2011 (UTC) (I found it here and there is an email address which might be useful if you want to track it down). SmartSE (talk) 16:54, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Indeed, I can't find it - it is missing from UWE library , also from Bristol Central Library. Jezhotwells (talk) 02:15, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

And it is missing from the University of Bristol library as well. Jezhotwells (talk) 08:01, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Henry Lonsdale; Musgrave Lewthwaite Watson (1866). The life and works of Musgrave Lewthwaite Watson. pp. 123–. Retrieved 5 January 2011. Has more details on the relief carving, I can't quite work out how to incorporate it though. The link is a tad wrong, as it actually starts on page 130. SmartSE (talk) 17:42, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks I have incorporated that. Jezhotwells (talk) 02:45, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Does a Pink Floyd performance warrant a mention? Glenn Povey (2007). Echoes: the complete history of Pink Floyd. Mind Head Publishing. pp. 1–. ISBN 9780955462405. Retrieved 5 January 2011. SmartSE (talk) 18:33, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Probably not, as many bands and theatre companies have performed there. Jezhotwells (talk) 02:15, 6 January 2011 (UTC) I have added them as the most notable. I am sure I saw The Who there, but can't track down a reference. Jezhotwells (talk) 10:17, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this would pass as reliable, but it has details on the foundation stone being layed and the addition of the fountain outside. If we can't use it, we should probably look for sources which we can use, using this to guide searches. SmartSE (talk) 20:25, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

About Bristol is a good site, but as a personal web page not really good enough for GA status, IMHO. Jezhotwells (talk) 02:15, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

That's what I thought - not to worry though as I managed to find a ref for the foundation stone elsewhere. One thing we could really do with a ref for, but which I wasn't able to find, is for them being named after Queen Victoria. Considering the dates of the foundation stone being layed + the opening this is really obvious, but no one seems to explicitly state it. Do you think it is so obvious that it would fall under WP:BLUE? SmartSE (talk) 10:36, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Fixed, see History section. Jezhotwells (talk) 11:31, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Nice, all we need now is a reviewer. SmartSE (talk) 12:14, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

I dropped Elekhh a note asking if they might have time to do the review in time for next week. SmartSE (talk) 15:50, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

I could take this fully on only from Monday, as I will have no internet access over the next days, which will leave three days to meet the deadline, if that's fine with you. Just had a very quick look, and it looks pretty good so far, so I think is doable considering the number of editors involved. As a preliminary comment, my main concern is 3(a) coverage:

• The forecourt seems to have some history, with this image indicating that it was initially fenced. It would be good to know when it became publicly accessible (was it part of the 1912 remodelling or did it happen earlier). The 1849 engraving suggests that the sphinxes were in the same place as the lions are now, thus is likely that they were simply replaced with the lions. Would be good to know if so, and why. If there is enough material, and noting that it is separately heritage listed, the forecourt could eventually become a separate section.

Well the phtograph shows that the fencing was there, circs 1868/9. It was almost certainly removed as part of the great removal of iron railings that took place during World War II, but getting a RS on that seems nigh on impossible.

• The location in the city could be worth expanding as well: it seems to have been located as a terminating vista to the approach from the city centre along Queen's Rd. Its location close to the University campus, might have also played a role in determining its current use.
• Regarding historic uses, I found the Clifton Cinema would be worthwhile to be mentioned if verifiable.

The History of Bristol Amateur Operatic Society mentions the Victoria Rooms being turned into a cinema in 1921.— Rod ^talk 17:14, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Hope this is of help. --Elekhh (talk) 00:35, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Exploratory dates

I think (but not sure) so not changing it that the dates for the exploratory are wrong. Looking at this ref I think it went there in 87 & then moved to the Brunel building at British Empire and Commonwealth Museum Temple Meads in 1989 - which fits with my memories of taking kids to it soon after it moved.— Rod ^talk 18:05, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Ah yes, I think you're right, it looks as if the idea started in the early 80s but there wasn't a full exhibition until '87. I'll change the article. SmartSE (talk) 18:32, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for that, the Grauniad[sic] was wrong! Jezhotwells (talk) 02:17, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Other possible content

Taking a look at Pages that link to "Victoria Rooms (Bristol)" I think we could add something on the artists that have performed at the venue or published recordings which have been made there - if thought relevant? However I found one that could go in as a quirky one (possible DYK hook if 5x expansion achieved) The lead character in Follow That Girl is named Victoria Rooms after the building!— Rod ^talk 20:51, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

That is interesting, but I tend to the feeling that a list of performers at the VR could never be exhaustive and might overwhelm the rest. Jezhotwells (talk) 02:18, 6 January 2011 (UTC) We would need to decide on which are the most notable. I would suggest no more than about a dozen major performers. we have Jenny lInd and Dickens, there were suffragette meetings, the British association of Science etc. Jezhotwells (talk) 02:47, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Can't find any reliable sources for the name Victoria Rooms, might have just been in the original King street production. Jezhotwells (talk) 10:31, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Victoria Rooms (Bristol)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Elekhh (talk) 03:36, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Started review. Comments will follow shortly. --Elekhh (talk) 03:36, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

As foreshadowed, while technically well written I find the article needs some improvement in coverage. Reading it for the third time, I still find the structure somewhat unclear with elements of the building history repeated in the Building and History sections.

• Focus:
  • I find the forecourt should be a separate section as its design is different in style from that of the building and is also a separate heritage item. More information about its history and configuration would be beneficial.
  • The article would benefit from a more clear distinction between the Building and History sections, with less repetition. One way would be to have the History section focus only on the uses of the building, the other way would be to have the Building section focus only on its current configuration.
    • Done. Jezhotwells (talk) 09:25, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

• Broad coverage:

There are many gaps in the article and at least some would need to be filled for the coverage to be assessable as "broad". Some of these are:

• Location
  • Why was it located there ?
    • Found a mention of it occupying one of the finest sites in Clifton. But no definite information on why that spot.
  • Was it a design choice to locate it as a terminating vista to the approach from the city centre along Queen's Rd?
    • Maybe, but cannot find any references.
      • Found this which at least states that it "sits on the axis of the prominent intersection of Queens Road". --Elekhh (talk) 05:16, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
  • Did its location close to the University campus influence its later use?
    • LIkewise, no definite information available.
• Uses
  • Clifton Cinema seems to have been a major use. The History of Bristol Amateur Operatic Society mentions the Victoria Rooms being turned into a cinema in 1921.
    • I don't think these can regarded as reliable sources. Until we find Rs, this information can't be in the article. And an RS says that it was given to the University in 1920 so maybe those dates are wrong?
  • How important was and still is as an events venue within Bristol?
    • Addressed.
• Internal design
  • While most of the article focuses on the design of the façade, and suggest that the interior is of limited noteworthiness, I found a couple of mentions of the octagonal room which would probably warrant its mentioning in the article. ([1], [2])
  • I would expect that the interior has been remodelled as often as a major change of use occurred, yet so far the article only mentions the 1934 fire. In 1921 the cinema might have required another one and the c1950 remodelling was another one.
    • But we have no concrete information on what was changed. Jezhotwells (talk) 09:25, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

I am aware that there might not be sources available to address each of these points, but the article would need to progress along these lines to meet GA. I am placing the review on hold to allow for improvements. --Elekhh (talk) 06:57, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the review. I have addressed those points where reliable sources can be found. I may have more tomorrow. Jezhotwells (talk) 23:59, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, have a look if this is useful: This source states that "the first public display of electricity in Bristol was in 1863 at the Victoria Rooms, to celebrate the marriage of the Prince of Wales to Princess Alexandra" which appears to be a good illustration of the importance of the building at that time. --Elekhh (talk) 05:16, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

• Thanks for the great work. The article has been significantly expanded (ca.60%) during the review to achieve a broad coverage which now includes location, interior configuration and historic uses. It is also better structured and focused, which will help with further expansions. I am happy to promote it to GA status. --Elekhh (talk) 22:02, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you again for the thorough review and thanks also to SmartSE and Rod foryour inaqvaluable help. Good to meet up with you today. Jezhotwells (talk) 22:48, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Bristol Wiki Meetup

You are invited to the Bristol Wiki Meetup which will take place at The Commercial Rooms, 43-45 Corn Street, Bristol BS1 1HT on Sunday 28 July 2013 from 1.00 pm. If you have never been to one, this is an opportunity to meet other Wikipedians in an informal atmosphere for Wiki and non-Wiki related chat and for beer or food if you like. Experienced and new contributors are all welcome. This event is definitely not restricted just to discussion of Bristol topics. Bring your laptop if you like and use the free Wifi or just bring yourself. Even better, bring a friend! Click the link for full details. Looking forward to seeing you. Philafrenzy (talk) 22:45, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

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