Talk:Veterinarian/Archives/2019

Requested move 29 August 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved (non-admin closure) Colin M (talk) 21:38, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

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Veterinary physician → Veterinarian – The current name "Veterinary physician" is basically never used. Veterinarian is by far the common name and thus this page should be moved there. Veterinary surgeon is becoming less common as they simple do more than surgery now. Here is the Ngram[1] Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:48, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

• Support per WP:COMMONNAME. Rreagan007 (talk) 06:27, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
• Support per WP:COMMONNAME S Philbrick(Talk) 14:00, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
• Support, per above. Of course, and thanks for nominating this. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:01, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
• Support per the above. Egsan Bacon (talk) 04:41, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
• Comment. Veterinarian and veterinary physician are almost never used in the UK; veterinary surgeon is overwhelmingly the common title (although "vet" is far commoner, of course). So both titles have an American bias. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:21, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

• I see very little evidence that "veterinary physician" is common anywhere. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 10:49, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

• Probably true. "Vet" is of course the commonest title everywhere. However, "Veterinarian is by far the common name" is simply not true where I come from. I've never heard it used in the UK (note that to us "vet" is unambiguous, as we almost never use the word as an abbreviation for veteran). This is probably why the current title was adopted, as one not used in either UK or US English and therefore with no bias towards either. I'm afraid the COMMONNAME arguments above just do not hold water outside North America. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:39, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

• Just a reminder, "in England" and "outside North America" aren't the same thing.

The Australian Government Department of Agriculture (agriculture.gov.au) "Consider a career as an Australian Government Veterinarian"; "The Department of Agriculture and Water Resources is Australia’s largest employer of veterinarians."; "As Australia’s Chief Veterinary Officer, I am supported by an expert team of veterinarians, scientists and policy makers."

The University of Melbourne (study.unimelb.edu.au) "How to become a veterinarian"; "As a veterinarian, you can work in clinical practice or veterinary research, for pharmaceutical companies or education providers, at zoos or animal welfare agencies, and in government services or development agencies across the globe."

ABC News (abc.net.au) "Veterinarians abandon profession as suicide rate remains alarmingly high"; "Australia's veterinarian shortage has been "particularly tough" in the past 12 months, according to an employment expert who blames stress, financial pressure and long hours, along with abuse and "emotional blackmail" from pet owners, for the problem."; "Veterinarian Matt Rosen from the Animal Emergency Service at Tanawha, on Queensland's Sunshine Coast, said a large factor for people leaving the profession was the manipulation vets received from people who could not afford their bills."

The Australian Veterinary Association (ava.com.au) "Welcome to the AVA - the only professional association representing veterinarians across Australia since 1921."

The Australasian Veternary Boards Council Inc. (avbc.asn.au) "How can I work as a veterinarian in Australia or New Zealand?"; "All persons wishing to work as veterinarian in Australia and New Zealand, or representing themselves as ‘veterinarian’ must by law be registered with a veterinary board and in the case of New Zealand, hold a current practicing certificate."

veterinarycareers.com.au "Can I work in Australia as a veterinarian?"; "To work in Australia as a veterinarian you must be registered to do so."; "Each State and Territory in Australia then has a Veterinary Surgeons Board (VSB) that a veterinarian needs to be registered with to practice (and this includes a lot of public practice roles like Government)."

vetwest.com.au "A career as a veterinarian"; "Being a veterinarian is more than just treating sick animals! Providing great customer service, assisting with the personal and professional development of colleagues and nursing staff, consoling owners and assisting in the development of a sustainable business are just a handful of the activities that Veterinarians are expected to do today. When a graduate Veterinarian finishes at university they have been trained to diagnose, treat, and prevent health problems in not only pets, but native wildlife, exotic animals, and domestic livestock. Once qualified a veterinarian can enjoy an above average salary. There are two main duties of a veterinarian."

vetvoice.com.au "How do you become a veterinarian?"; "To become a veterinarian, you need to complete an undergraduate or post graduate degree in veterinary science. Depending on the university, it takes between five and seven years of study to become a veterinarian."

Egsan Bacon (talk) 14:57, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

• Also, from South Africa:

The South African Government (gov.za) "Contact your nearest provincial state veterinarian to apply for an inspection for export registration. Arrange with the provincial state veterinarian to inspect the facility. The provincial state veterinarian will complete the inspection report, with motivation and recommendation, and send it to the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries for approval."

The University of Pretoria (up.ac.za) "Being the only one of its kind in South Africa, the Faculty is solely responsible for the training of veterinarians and veterinary nurses."

The South African Veterinary Association (sava.co.za) "The SAVMA’s early goal of having the professional status of the South African veterinarian legally entrenched had finally been realised."; "In the early years of the SAVMA, virtually all its office bearers and members were government veterinarians."; "The latter represented the mainly species-based disciplines in which veterinarians tended to specialise such as small animals, production animals, horses, pigs, poultry and wildlife, but some activity-based disciplines are also represented."

The South African Veterinary Council (savc.org.za) "Veterinarian: The veterinary profession in South Africa is a learned and honourable profession and veterinarians and veterinary specialists are expected to at all times act in such a manner as to maintain and promote the prestige, honour, dignity and interests of the profession."

The South African Veterinary Foundation (savf.org.za) "We added this portfolio to the board a few years ago and established through extensive collaboration with the members of the Groups and Branches of the SAVA which areas of research we need to focus on from the perspective of practicing veterinarians."; "The Pet Memorial 1 Fund, which is the fund veterinarians contribute to grew 12 % from 2017 (R 82 825) to 2018 (R 95 165) and again 12% from 2018 to 2019 (R 108 822)."

The Bryanston Veterinary Hospital (bryanstonvet.co.za) "We have 12 veterinarians including two specialist surgeons, one specialist physician, and two residents completing their specialist degrees in surgery and medicine, one general practitioner and three interns."

The Independent (iol.co.za) "There is a severe shortage of veterinarians, with new graduates leaving the country in droves to take up more lucrative positions overseas."; "Rebone Moerane, president of the SA Veterinary Council, said some of the reasons for the shortage of veterinarians were competition between various science institutions for the few mathematics and science pupils at high schools, and a lack of awareness in the rural areas, particularly in black communities. The difference in salary between an engineer or medical professional compared with a veterinarian, and the competition with other countries, also played a part."

Farmer's Weekly (farmersweekly.co.za) "Qualified vets can work in the public sector as state veterinarians, in veterinary public health and food safety, in the import/export industry, in the SA National Defence Force or SAPS, or in diagnostic laboratories."

Egsan Bacon (talk) 15:41, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Just a (slightly ironic) reminder that "in England" and "in the UK" aren't the same thing! ;) I didn't say they were. I was taking issue with the statement that veterinarian was "by far the common name" and the subsequent COMMONNAME arguments, which, as so often, appeared to be forgetting that not every country follows North American practice. Yes, Australia and New Zealand appear to use veterinarian. The UK and Ireland use veterinary surgeon. As it appears that most of Africa and the Indian Subcontinent also use veterinarian I won't oppose the move, but it does sometimes need to be pointed out that there are different varieties of English and that just because a term is primary usage in one country does not mean it is primary usage in all others, as is sometimes assumed. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:54, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.