Talk:Verwurelter

sources

Hi, UnexpectedSmoreInquisition! Thank you for creating this promising draft! Unfortunately none of these sources look to be reliable for demonstrating notability.

• [1] has a stated mission of promoting Luxembourg, which means it wants to discuss things like the tasty donuts served at festivals to tempt people to visit and attend festivals.
• [2] is a blog, which generally means no editorial oversight, which unless the blogger is an established expert, means it's not reliable enough to support a claim to notability.
• [3] is another blog.

What we need to see is this dish being discussed at some length (not just a recipe) in multiple reliable sources. It can be a book, a newspaper, a magazine. It doesn't have to be available online. Since this is a specialty of a country with three official languages, you could search on it in all three. A good place to check is the German and French Wikipedias to see if they have an article and sources, although be aware they don't have the same sourcing requirements as we do here on en.wiki.

It also looks like there are multiple names -- probably different in each language, but also two different but related food items that have different names. That's very common for foods. Search on all the names you find. LMK if you need more help, or go to WP:Teahouse with questions. Valereee (talk) 10:07, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

So, I did find one reliable source, TasteAtlas, which has editorial oversight. The article is barely long enough; we probably need to find two instances of WP:sigcov in some other reliable independent source. I've replaced the info cited to the blogs with it, though. I've kept luxembourg.public and added Visit Europe which, while as promotional sites they can't go to proving notability, can be used to fill in noncontroversial facts. I have no doubt this food item is indeed notable, but we have to prove it, and because Luxembourg is a very small country, you probably need to look in Luxembourg newspapers, books about Luxembourg, books about European festivals, and Luxembourgish cookbooks. You could also ask for help at WP:WikiProject Luxembourg. Ping to Ipigott who apparently lives in Luxembourg. Hey, Ian! Is finding Luxembourg sources something you could help this enthusiastic new editor with? Valereee (talk) 11:40, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

I'm no expert in Luxembourg pastries but maybe this would help. There's also an item in the German Gourmet-Magazin]. If you also include these, UnexpectedSmoreInquisition, I think your draft should be acceptable. Let me know when you've improved your draft and I'll try to help you along.--Ipigott (talk) 12:58, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

@Ipigott The editors at Teahouse disputed the reliability of the book when I mentioned it, however I do believe the magazine is a good lead. Thanks! Nobody expects the UnexpectedSmoreInquisition (talk)! 03:09, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

I deeply appreciate the edits and advice given. I would however like to mention that I found Wikiproject Luxembourg to be a wasteland, at least for the talk page. I've eliminated most of the bottom half of newspapers in reverse chronological order and will report back here when I find further info. Nobody expects the UnexpectedSmoreInquisition (talk)! 03:06, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Organization

I was stopping by this draft, and had some comments about the draft's current organization. A seemingly major feature about this dish, is the fact that it is served during Fuesent. As it currently stands, ~50% of the draft's body discusses the history of Fuesent.

With this in mind, it feels to me as if there are two topics; the Fuesent carnival, as well as the dish itself. Among these two, it seems that there's a great deal of information about the former topic. Looking at Carnival#Luxembourg which discusses Fuesend in solid detail, I think spinning off a brand new article about the carnival could definitely be worth it. Additionally, Fuesent currently has a Wiktionary entry, which can aid in topic navigation. Diving into the wiktionary page, it lists the "carnival" and the "pastry" as two separate definitions of Fuesent, which is currently a little contradictory to what is being said here, although there may be differences between these two still.

Nevertheless, it appears there may be room for articles about the festival and the food in mainspace, especially if both are able reliably sourced. My recommendation though is that an article about the festival may be able to pull from higher quality sources than one about just the food (although I will say again that I do think both can be promoted!). Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 17:59, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Agreed, it seems as though there is enough information to create an article on Fuesent. I would, however, like this article to get accepted first, as it appears the dish is a fairly important part of the festival. Sort of building around the article before it's inception. I am willing to and will help you on the venture once this is accepted, though. Whilst researching I came across a large amount of inconsistency in definitions, as you mention. If you continue to work on this draft, I would recommend avoiding further mention of the festival, so the article doesn't become a stub once the Fuesent article is made. Nobody expects the UnexpectedSmoreInquisition (talk)! 18:52, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Hello! I guess my point is, as kind of a style decision, there doesn't seem to be a need to define what Fuesent is in this page that is meant to be about the pastry. Essentially, this isn't the Fuesent article; this is the Fueskichelcher article. People looking for information about Fuesent would find it on the (currently hypothetical) Fuesent article, whether or not it exists when people read this. Now, I'm not particularly keen on removing the section as it stands, but the information doesn't seem to be at the correct location currently, and I would encourage the article about the pastry to be filled with information concerning the pastry itself rather than make a tangent to define the festival. The subject of this article (the pastry) is not mentioned at the third source. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 19:03, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

So, do you want to remove the information on Fuesent now, or after the article is created? Nobody expects the UnexpectedSmoreInquisition (talk)! 19:07, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

I don't think it matters when necessarily the section is removed; the description reads like it's the opening paragraph for a Fuesent article, is all I'm saying. More reliable references & coverage of the pastry specifically would be nice, though. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 19:12, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Yep, I'll work on that. Trying to find more sources atm. Nobody expects the UnexpectedSmoreInquisition (talk)! 20:14, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Template

{{Image requested|date=January 2024|food}} UnexpectedSmoreInquisition aka USI (talk) 03:53, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Ignore previous

UnexpectedSmoreInquisition aka USI (talk) 03:54, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

TasteAtlas

Should it be removed? Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_422#tasteatlas 48JCL 19:04, 8 July 2024 (UTC)