Talk:Vainakh tower architecture

Page split from "Nakh peoples"

This article was created from two sections of the Nakh peoples article, since the details were getting off-topic for the latter. --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 18:43, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Defensive Towers height

(This section was copied from Talk:Nakh peoples. --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 18:43, 11 November 2009 (UTC))

I read that defensive towers were 30m high somewhere else to. But I'm not sure if that's true. Searching for evidences but I think they were maximum 20 or 25 meters high... Normally they had 5 or 6 floors+3 or 4meter height of first floor(in defensive reasons) level from terrain. it makes 6xFloor hight+4meters=30 that mean each floor was in best case 6 meters high.. thats impossible..(and not esthetic) So in my opinion someones wrote 30 in place 15 or 20 and other followed his/her mistake... By the way the towers I saw in real wer far lower than 10floors building --Nakh 09:54, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

25meters high were Combat towers. The dwelling towers were a little bit lower. "Presumably, it had three stories originally. Only two are extant, and the present-day height of the tower approaches 7 metres." Nakh 05:31, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

References

Nakh vs. Vainakh Architecture

At least, in my book, there's a difference between the two. The difference is whether the term refers to the Bats, and although the Bats are a tiny group that almost no one knows about, from a factual point of view, its a pretty big difference.

Vainakh refers to Chechens and Ingush (and Kists, who, ethnically, are semi-Georgianized Chechens) collectively. It is pretty much an equivalent to Czechoslovak- a word for two separate but very close people. It refers to the sense of kinship between Chechens and Ingush (it means, of course, "our people"). Vainakh thus includes Chechens, Ingush, and Kist (in an ethnic sense only though, as Kists do not identify as Chechens, despite speaking Chechen, they identify as Georgian Nakh). It does not include the Bats, who are culturally very different from Vainakh peoples (do not really have teips in the sense that Chechens and Ingush do; have always had Georgian/Tush laws rather than an adat; Christian; heavily Georgianized, etc.) and do not consider themselves Vainakh.

Nakh includes all peoples speaking Nakh languages- Chechens, Ingush, Kists and Bats. But there's only a couple thousand (at most) Bats and they are also obscure to the point that very few people know of their existence (indeed, they did not even have a separate census group once in all the history of Tsarist, Soviet and now Georgian censuses). Thus, people forget that the Bats exist. If you forget the Bats exist than Nakh seems to be almost equivalent to the Vainakh- both include the same set of people (Ingush, Chechens and Kists).

But we should refrain from using "Nakh" in such a way (in Wikipedia at least), because it is not correct. At least that's what I think. That's why I propose it should be renamed "Vainakh architecture"

But before I formalize this, I wanted to ask what the people actually editing the page (Nakh and others) thought of this. Any comments, suggestions, corrections, etc? Do you agree? --Yalens (talk) 18:05, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, after reading the article (somewhat), if there's influence from Urartian and Byzantine styles, I suppose one could say its an inherent Nakh thing. But still, I'm against overgeneralization. We could just put a note, at least if its too much to rename it, that Bats architecture is little known (and probably, I'm guessing, identical to Chagma-Tush architecture). Still, as a general rule, I oppose the use of Vainakh for the Bats (and this page clearly has little if anything to do with Bats/Tsova-Tush) because they lack Vainakh cultural traits (like the Vainakh clan system and the adat). --Yalens (talk) 18:32, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Check out this Tushetian village named Dartlo, I believe it's Nakh architecture

Dartlo

(I also found such a tower in the Tushetian village of Parsma) Machinarium (talk) 15:13, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Interestingly, I also found one in Khevsureti (search for Lebiskari). Machinarium (talk) 16:04, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Nakh Tower also found in Chontio, which was historically a Bats village. Machinarium (talk) 17:41, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Machinarium belated thanks for this! --Yalens (talk) 06:12, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Good source I found, hope it helps

George Anchabadze's The Vainakhs... pages 25-27 have a lot on architecture.

Circassian World has it available online for now here as a pdf: http://www.circassianworld.com/pdf/The_Vainakhs_George_Anchabadze.pdf

The book is also a generally good resource for all things Vainakh, especially considering that sadly, Jaimoukha is no longer available to read online... :{. Hope you can find a good use for the info~. (I might add some myself) --Yalens (talk) 19:50, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Locking this article

Hello Drmies since you banned "Chechenthief" could you also lock this article for a couple of weeks? because lately this channel has been attacked by people who claim they are Ingush, their edits and even profile pages are anti-Chechen, especially this last one posted some ridiculous Mein Kampf-tier fan-fiction about Chechens. I do not believe these are actually Ingush since Chechens and Ingush have always had good relations. It is most likely some neo-Nazi group that is trying to sow disunity among us. So it would be wise to lock this article for a while imo. Also check the pageviews, last couple of days they have hundreds of views compared to the earlier dates. Someone is trying to attack this article. --Goddard2000 (talk) 21:16, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Name

The article should be renamed, in the Russian, Turkish, Chechen and other Wikipedias the article is called Chechen. Takhirgeran Umar (talk) 21:22, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi - I agree that this article should be renamed, but it should be merged with Ingush Towers. 60% of the content is the same. Easy to make it clear in the lead that most of the towers are in Chechen and Ingush territory.

I came here to suggest a merge, and then read your comment. What do you think? Billyshiverstick (talk) 04:54, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Article Merge Request

Hi, could we please call this article "Nakh/Vainakh Architecture" or "Nakh/Vainakh Towers", explain who the Bats are in the lead, and then roll the Ingush Towers article into it as a section, with Chechen towers as another section. "Nakh Architecture redirects here" etc. The tower architecture is so close, and these areas are side by side. The different "balkanized" articles repeat each other over and over. (pun intended) All of these cultures made very similar towers at very similar times. I don't have the editing chops to propose this properly. Billyshiverstick (talk) 05:03, 27 February 2024 (UTC) #User:Drmies

• Billyshiverstick, I don't know why you pinged me--this is hardly my area, though I am tentatively planning a five-year trek to the Caucasus and Central Asia, with my Uncle Sandro of Chegem. Drmies (talk) 16:06, 27 February 2024 (UTC)