Talk:Ustaše Youth

Review by CactiStaccingCrane

• You might want to add IPA pronounciation to "Ustaše Youth".
  • Added.
• Some phrases can be simplified, from this issue came down to individual camp leaders to camp leaders.
  • Removed "individual".
• Some phrases are a bit "half-facty" and acronymised such as Ustaše Youth members were involved in the Genocide of Serbs and Jews by the NDH regime, committing many of the worst atrocities. This sentence can be converted and expanded to Ustaše Youth members were involved in the Genocide of Serbs and the Holocaust in the Independent State of Croatia.
  • Done.
• Keep the title consise. Relations with other fascist youth organizations can be reworded to Organizations relations or just Relations.
  • Done
• Replace curly quotes (“) to straight quotes (").
  • Done, except at "polemicized very sharply against the talk of a “new Europe”", cause idk what should I do with this quote inside of another quote.
• Be specfic, vague sentences such as Under its regime all those of old mentality – liberal democracy, plutocracy, and Yugoslavism should be reworded. One possible solution is Under its regime, liberal democracy, plutocracy, and Yugoslavism.
  • Reworded to Under its regime, all those considered to be of old mentality – liberal democracy, plutocracy, and Yugoslavism
• Seperate some long sentences. Ustaše youth groups were formed in the 1930s and by 1940 started regularly releasing flyers inviting Croatian youth to their demonstrations, activities, and rallies. can be break up to Ustaše youth groups were formed in the 1930s and by 1940. They started releasing flyers for Croatian youth coming to their demonstrations, activities, and rallies.
  • I think a long sentence works better here.
• Remove the slashs, and use or instead.
  • Slashes replaced.
• Some sentences are unclear. Countryside camps were set up during an at-least-three-days-long camping trip in which Ustaše Youth members from various parts of the state would gather. can be converted to Ustaše Youth members from various parts of the state would gather in countryside camps.
• Don't hyphen words because it looks neat. at-least-three-days-long should be broken up to at least three days long.
  • According to MOS:HYPHEN, hyphens should be used "to link related terms in compound modifiers", I am not a native English speaker but I believe that is the case here.
• Be neutral, and don't put it in bad or good view. This can be hard with facism. This paragraph is a prime example:

Ustaše Youth members were involved in the Genocide of Serbs and Jews by the NDH regime and in 1941, according to eyewitnesses many of the worst atrocities were committed by youths. Survivours of the mass murders in Križevci and Karlovac testified that many armed youths participated in the killings and torture of Serbs and Jews. Members of Ustaše Youth together with the Student Militia of Poglavnik's Bodyguard Brigade perpetrated many of the first massacres in towns and countryside of the NDH. On one occasion, Zdenko Blažeković boasted about large numbers of Serbs he had killed and claimed to have made a necklace of ears of his victims. Two children's concentration camps were staffed by members of Ustaše Youth. In Jastrebarsko children's camp between 449 and 1,500 children died and in Sisak children's camp, which was staffed by female part of Ustaše Youth, between 1,152 and 1,631 children died.

• • I fail to see how does this paragraph have a POV. The only thing I can see that could be considered not neutral is use of the word "worst" before atrocities but as this is "according to eyewitnesses", I believe that it is NPOV. I have added an inlince citation for that sentence but I don't what else should be changed.
• I suggest pushing the notes to the article.
  • Stuff in the notes isn't that important and it would make a sentence too wordy IMO.
• The article is underlinked. Consider linking to more articles, and remove redundant links.
  • This has never been my stronger side, idk what should and what shouldn't be linked. If you want you can point out exact cases, if not then this can be adressed during a formal GA review.
• An SVG of the youth group should be added. You can request Wikipedians to vectorise it.
  • Added.

Well, that's it for now. Ping me using {{ping|CactiStaccingCrane}} once you are done. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 08:39, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

• @CactiStaccingCrane: I have addressed all your points. Thank you for this review. OakMapping (talk) 11:45, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
  • Good luck with your journey! I will add more comments whenever possible :) CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 12:25, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 10:13, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that leader of male Ustaše Youth Zdenko Blažeković claimed to have placed ears of the Serbs he murdered on his necklace? Source: Visions of Annihilation: The Ustasha Regime and the Cultural Politics of Fascism, 1941-1945, p. 51

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/SS Fernebo

Moved to mainspace by OakMapping (talk). Self-nominated at 20:42, 9 October 2021 (UTC).

• Definitely new enough and easily long enough. Earwig didn't find any copyvios, and the article is well written. The hook is sourced in the article. However, some of the sources are in Serbian or Croatian, which raises some verifiability issues per supplementary rule H3. YttriumShrew (talk) 22:30, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

@YttriumShrew: I am not familiar with the rule you're referring to but per WP:NOENG non-English sources are allowed. I don't understand why foreign-language sources are a problem here. OakMapping (talk) 06:58, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

@OakMapping: The rule I was referring to was Supplementary guideline H3, which concerns foreign-language sources. I thought there were enough foreign-language sources that this article might fail this criterion, but I'd prefer to seek the opinion of a more experienced reviewer on this. YttriumShrew (talk) 07:31, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Alright, in that case, I guess we should wait for a second opinion. OakMapping (talk) 09:25, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Second opinion by experienced reviewer requested. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:23, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

Comment: @BlueMoonset: @OakMapping: A quick glance through the source material doesn't raise any red flags for me. The most prominently cited Serbo-Croatian work is Tko je tko u NDH, a lexicon covering hundreds of prominent personalities in the Independent State of Croatia. I have used it many times in the past and it is extremely useful for referencing certain biographical details, though it does have its shortcomings. Since each entry is by a different author, the references to it in this article are divided into multiple entries, which gives the impression that Serbo-Croatian works are being cited more than they actually are. In reality, it's only a single book. The other Serbo-Croatian works are all ones I have cited at one point or another in the past. Amanuensis Balkanicus (talk) 01:39, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

Comment: @BlueMoonset: @OakMapping: I think I agree with @Amanuensis Balkanicus:. Yoemans is a very reliable historian and source of information. It would be ideal if we had more than one source discusing the claim of ear necklaces (horrid). Are there any? I will take a look myself. As the the rest of the article sources nothing sticks out to me either. Serbo-Croatian sources will naturally be the most numerouse on such subjects. As long as they are RS, I don’t see the issue? @Peacemaker67: I know you are quite well versed in WWII Balkan sources. Thoughts on the excerpt and article? Cheers. OyMosby (talk) 23:01, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

Comment Yeoman's is fine. Tko je tko u NDH has its shortcomings (it is very light-on regarding the crimes against humanity committed by Ustaše listed in it), but as a directory providing basic details it is OK. However, there are a few issues with the information on the Jastrebarsko children's camp which are best explained by reading the exchange between Carabinieri and I at Talk:Jastrebarsko children's camp#Additional source which resulted in my withdrawal the FAC of that article so I can incorporate info from the additional source. In short, the camp article isn't really wrong overall, but some of the details may be inflated or not the whole story, including the involvement of the Ustaše Youth in guarding the camp, which is mentioned in this article. I can provide access to the Vulesica article if needed to help with this article. Checking p. 51 of Yeomans, I would change the wording of the DYK to "that an Ustaše Youth student leader, Zdenko Blažeković, claimed to have placed the ears of the Serbs he murdered on a necklace?" Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:21, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

YttriumShrew, do you have enough in terms of information and comments on the sourcing to continue your review? Please also note the suggested change to the existing hook in the most recent comment. Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:56, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

• @YttriumShrew: how we lookin'? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 01:01, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

OK. With that I think we can change the review status to . YttriumShrew (talk) 01:06, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Modified ALT0 to T:DYK/P3