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Talk:Uruguay/Archive 2

< Talk:Uruguay
Latest comment: 6 months ago by Ocampoernesto in topic Recent edits replacing "the Americas" with "South America"
Archive 1 Archive 2

Gun ownership

Latest comment: 9 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Despite having restrictive laws regarding gun ownership, Uruguay is the 2nd most armed country in the Americas. I think that should be covered in the article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country — Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.57.52.127 (talk) 01:06, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Indigenous Peoples

Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I think it's offensive to say in the second paragraph:

"Uruguay remained largely uninhabited until the establishment of Colonia del Sacramento"

Especially when later it's made clear that the country was inhabited by indigenous peoples. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.254.147.188 (talk) 13:23, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 August 2015

Latest comment: 8 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Please change the link in Culture->Couisine from Flans, to Crème caramel which is called flan here. We do not eat mexican music bands. Salvadorp2001 (talk) 15:02, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

  Done. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 18:49, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Green Energy

Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I wrote about green energy supply. 95% of the electricity in Uruguay is produced by remevable sources.

It would be nice if someone could read what I wrote about it, correct it, write a little more about it, and (if needed) include it in other articles :-) --Momo Monitor (talk) 02:55, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

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Perception of crime

Latest comment: 7 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I've reverted this again. Now let's discuss. Nowhere does it say that “high crime and lack of security” are problems; you're misrepresenting the article. (And this is not a a reliable source; it's an opinion piece.) The source about the actual poll tells us very little. It says that crime/insecurity is perceived to be a bigger problem than corruption, poverty, etc. This could be read to say that poverty, corruption, etc. aren't problems in Uruguay. In other words, this sort of a study isn't very useful. And finally, none of this belongs in the lead. The lead is supposed to summarize the most important parts of the article, not introduce new information not found elsewhere in the article. -- Irn (talk) 16:36, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

See WP:Lead fixation. This should be included in some subsection. Or, better yet, in the missing article Crime in Uruguay. Cambalachero (talk) 16:36, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

translation of the official name

Latest comment: 7 years ago6 comments2 people in discussion
  • I am not sure whether the name "República Oriental del Uruguay" would better be translated at "Republic Oriental of the [River] Uruguay" or "Republic East of the [River] Uruguay" rather than "Oriental [Eastern] Republic of Uruguay". Both translations are possible, but "Republic East of the Uruguay" catches the meaning better but maybe a native speaker could verify this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wmeyenberg (talk • contribs) 2016-07-19T04:08:41‎
    • I suppose you could make the argument that the "eastern" refers to being east of the Uruguay River, since that part of the name dates back to the name given to the province within the Viceroyalty of Rio de la Plata, "Eastern Bank of the Uruguay [River]" (Banda Oriental del Uruguay). However, I think the sense of simply "eastern province" (within the United Provinces of Río de La Plata) and later "eastern republic" (as an independent country) makes more sense. In any case, it's not really up to us to determine the best translation; we have to go with what the sources say, and in this case, that's either "Oriental Republic of Uruguay" or "Eastern Republic of Uruguay". Cheers, -- Irn (talk) 15:28, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
    • "Oriental" does seem to be a very unusual English translation. "wiktionary:oriental" lists the English usage of "oriental" to mean "eastern" as obsolete, and the English translation of the Spanish usage of "oriental" as being "eastern" and not "oriental." I would suggest changing the translation to the "Eastern Republic of the Uruguay" (which apparently already has a Wikipedia redirect page), or secondarily as the "Republic East of the Uruguay." The only official Uruguayan pages I could find in English using the full name is the President's website, but the translation provided is unfortunately just an automated one from Google Translate. Nicole Sharp (talk) 22:38, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

poll

@Wmeyenberg: @Irn: @Philmonte101: I crossposted this discussion to "wiktionary:talk:Uruguay#official name" and "wiktionary:Wiktionary:Translation requests#Spanish to English." In the absence of any written citations, I think it would be helpful to create a poll of what people think the English translation should be listed as here on Wikipedia and on Wiktionary. Nicole Sharp (talk) 00:51, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

  • Eastern Republic of the Uruguay
    (Support.) Nicole Sharp (talk) 00:51, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
  • Eastern Republic of Uruguay
  • Oriental Republic of the Uruguay
  • Oriental Republic of Uruguay
  • Republic East of the Uruguay
  • Republic East of Uruguay
  • Republic Oriental of the Uruguay
  • Republic Oriental of Uruguay

citations

I finally found some citations. Per the Wikipedia page, the USA CIA World Factbook and Britannica.com list the translation as the "Oriental Republic of Uruguay." However, the United Nations lists the translation as the "Eastern Republic of Uruguay." I personally would go with the international usage of the United Nations instead of the (confusingly-translated) USA publications (Britannica has actually been a USA, not British, publication since 1901). However, notably, both omit the definite article in their translations, which I think is also confusing, since Uruguay in the title refers to the river and not land. Nicole Sharp (talk) 01:19, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the effort you've put in to this! However, if you look at the etymology section of the article, I think you'll see that your concerns have already been addressed. Cheers, -- Irn (talk) 15:03, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
The question is about the best translation of the official name, not about a lack of information in the article. Nicole's concerns have not been addressed because they are not about the article content at all. Anon 18:37, 20 April 2017 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.36.29.253 (talk)

Languages

Latest comment: 7 years ago7 comments3 people in discussion

Greetings to all Editors I was raised in Colonia Valdense city. Y am much aware of the languages spoken in Southern Uruguay. Also the Origins of the piligrims. I do my best to cite sources. IS there anything else I must do in order to comply to Wikipedia polcy? I am new, so any help will be appreciated. Taesulkim (talk) 00:41, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia content must cite reliable sources that allow our readers to independently verify the content. "Trust me, I know what I'm writing about" would be considered original research and is not acceptable on Wikipedia. Please do not restore the content unless you can provide a reliable source such as a textbook on Uruguayan linguistics that confirms the content. See WP:Referencing for beginners on how to easily cite your sources. Huon (talk) 11:27, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Huon

University of Iowa // Theses and Dissertations From the Alps to Appalachia: the evolution of the Waldensians http://ir.uiowa.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5828&context=etd


Text Book Globalization and Diversity , Geography of a Changing World: Biology, Biology, Edition 3 https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=1SHm_Sd5uboC&rdid=book-1SHm_Sd5uboC&rdot=1&source=gbs_vpt_read&pcampaignid=books_booksearch_viewport

https://books.google.com.uy/books?id=1SHm_Sd5uboC&pg=PT76&lpg=PT76&dq=%22patois%22+%22uruguay%22&source=bl&ots=6zv1ir8_X6&sig=cdWfYvQGtEDSsNMx8fJ_sKZe-8w&hl=es&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=%22patois%22%20%22uruguay%22&f=false

Although Wikipedia is not official info, read here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldensian_Church_and_Cemetery_of_Stone_Prairie


Here you have a page from the Goberment (State Board) in Uruguay http://www.juntacolonia.gub.uy/index.php/56-legislacion/nomenclator/1189-puente-el-tumpi-colonia-valdense

I quote: El puente era llamado “El Tumpí”, que en su original “patois” –herencia europea que trajeron los colonos valdenses- significa “lagunón” o “pozo”, dado que ese tramo del arroyo era propicio, por su profundidad, para aprender a nadar o recrearse. This a Public tendering for companies to restore a Bridge. They mention the name of the Bridge "El Tumpi" and points the original was in "Patois" an European heritage brough by the Waldensian settlers with the meaning "lagoon" or "water well", Since this section of the stream was conducive, because of its depth, to learn to swim or recreate.

Also in the mayor Newspaper in Uruguay (Diario el Pais" http://viajes.elpais.com.uy/2016/07/20/no-se-pierdan-el-piamonte-uruguayo/ It mention the Preaching in the State of Colonia, been initiated in Patois. Taesulkim (talk) 16:49, 19 November 2016 (UTC)


Huon Another Book by the University of the Republic (Uruguay) Udelar http://dedicaciontotal.udelar.edu.uy/adjuntos/produccion/742_academicas__academicaarchivo.pdf Etnicidad y Lenguaje Translated Ethnicity and Language By Graciela Barrios, University of the Republic (Uruguay) Facultad de Humanidades y Ciencias de la Educación Departamento de Publicaciones - 2008

I quote: Para los valdenses residentes en Colonia Valdense, por ejemplo, el patois sigue funcionando como LEtn, aunque ya casi no lo utilicen. Si bien actualmente la lengua de comunicación habitual en esta comunidad es el español, los valdenses están convencidos de que el patois es una de las características más específicas del grupo5, la lengua que hablaron y mantuvieron efectivamente sus ancestros a lo largo de los siglos.

Translation: For Waldensians living in Colonia Valdense, for example, patois continues to function as LEtn, although they are almost no longer used. Although currently the usual language of communication in this community is Spanish, the Waldensians are convinced that [patois] is one of the most specific characteristics of the group5, the language spoken and effectively maintained by their ancestors throughout the ages.

I Quote: Los valdenses arribados al Uruguay en la última postguerra, además del patois y el francés tenían nociones de italiano, adquirido a través de la escuela. En otros casos, el repertorio de LMigs puede restringirse a una sola variedad, como ocurre con los italianos que llegaron en el siglo XIX al Uruguay, quienes al contar con escasa o nula escolarización, manejaban originariamente sólo su dialecto regional

Translation: The Waldensians arrived in Uruguay in the last postwar period, in addition to the patois and the French had notions of Italian, acquired through the school. In other cases, the repertoire of LMigs can be restricted to a single variety, as in the case of Italians who arrived in Uruguay in the 19th century, who had little or no schooling and originally only used their regional dialect

I Quote Los primeros colonos Piemontese eran bilingües de patois 12 (su LMat) y francés, lengua de la cultura, muy vinculada a la religión y a la educación, que estaba muy extendida entre ellos.

Translation: The first settlers Piemontese were bilingual of patois 12 (their LMat) and French, language of culture, closely linked to religion and education, which was widespread among them.

I Quote El uso del francés y del patois subsistió durante siglos en el entorno italiano, y por cuatro generaciones en el contexto migratorio uruguayo.

Translation: The use of French and patois continued for centuries in the Italian environment, and for four generations in the Uruguayan migratory context.

Taesulkim (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

The first few sources seem to be the results of a Google search and are not particularly helpful because they don't discuss the subject at hand. From the Alps to Appalachia: the evolution of the Waldensians mentions Uruguay in passing, but does not say anything about languages spoken there. Globalization and Diversity mentions Uruguay and patois on the same page - in unrelated entries. The book mentions that some other language is spoken in Uruguay before changing subjects and discussing patois in a non-Uruguay context. Etnicidad y Lenguaje, on the other hand, is a reliable source that explicitly discusses the use of Patois in Uruguay by the Waldensians. While this does seem a comparatively minor language that should not make up half our coverage of languages in Uruguay (Spanish, Portuguese, English and French are all likely to be far more relevant; see also WP:UNDUE), it is appropriate for a very short note. Huon (talk) 20:33, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
Dear Huon Thanks for your review. Remember I am New and I try to put the information the best I can. Please help me to improve the Article if you please. I can be of assitance if you need any translation from Spanish. Thanks in advance. Taesulkim (talk) 00:32, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
I've reverted most of your edition because it makes a number of claims I don't see supported by the text, and its length runs into WP:UNDUE issues. The one source we have doesn't say that the patois is a mix of French and Italian, but rather says nothing about the origins of the patois and only mentions French and Italian as other languages spoken. The text doesn't say that the language is dead, but rather that its use is very limited. And the text doesn't mention the Biblioteca Valdense at all. The other stuff about the Waldensians didn't seem appropriate for the section.
I guess, I'm not totally clear on what it is you want added here. That the Waldensians in Colonia Valdense speak a form of patois? That's all I could really salvage from the source, and that's what I left in. -- Irn (talk) 16:37, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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External links modified

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A contradiction?

Latest comment: 5 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The History | 20th Century section begins:

The Colorado leader José Batlle y Ordóñez was elected president in 1903.[34] The following year, the Blancos led a rural revolt and eight bloody months of fighting ensued before their leader, Aparicio Saravia, was killed in battle. Government forces emerged victorious, leading to the end of the co-participation politics that had begun in 1872.[34] Batlle had two terms (1903–07 and 1911–15) during which, taking advantage of the nation's stability and growing economic prosperity, he instituted major reforms...

Eight months of fighting during Batlle's first term doesn't read smoothly in combination with "the nation's stability" two sentences later. I don't know enough about Uruguayan history to try to edit this section, but maybe somebody with more knowledge can clarify this seeming contradiction.

Mourningdoves (talk) 02:44, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

NPOV?

Latest comment: 4 years ago4 comments4 people in discussion

The last two paragraphs of the lead section seem a little too laudatory to me. Is it worth flagging that up or am I overanalysing? Commissaress (talk) 16:53, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

you can fix the problem, but remember about the reliable source. AlfaRocket (talk) 14:01, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
Still seems to be the case, they even make legalizing weed sound incredibly smart without acknowledging there are detractors on the issue. I would change it, but I'm no expert on Uruguay. Nerfer (talk) 19:10, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
Those two paragraphs do seem to describe "everything that's good" about Uruguay. However, they are properly sourced and I couldn't find anything untrue or misleading in them. Hence I ask, what would the alternatives be? Delete them? Add "negatives" to them? Move them out of the lead section? I checked some other countries' articles and those for Switzerland, France and the Netherlands seem to conclude their leads in much the same way as this one, so unless a rather persuading alternative is presented I am of the opinion of leaving them as they are. Attilapw (talk) 01:25, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Wrong subtitles?

Latest comment: 3 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The anthem says "De este don sacrosanto la gloria, merecimos, Tiranos temblad! Tiranos temblad! Tiranos temblad!"

But, the subtitles stay the same.

Can someone correct it?


---@imlulz — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2800:A4:3179:B00:F4EA:AF9F:A8E9:304C (talk) 22:02, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

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Latest comment: 3 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

Latest comment: 3 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

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It seems this article is from CIA world fact book and needs to be elaborated extensively by people with local / real knowledge --2606:A000:1228:4033:8D0A:7968:3F9F:BA3B (talk) 22:19, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Outdated

Latest comment: 3 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

For starters the Economy section of this article is very outdated. It goes up to 2013 at most, with most of the info pre-2010.

The government section is also behind with most of it from 2010/11. Demographics is a bit better but not much. Volunteer Marek 19:55, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Misattributed source

Latest comment: 3 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The department of state source name="dept-state" used throughout the article doesn't have much of the information it is supposed to be citing. This is particularly noticeable at the beginning of the Return to democracy (1984–present) section

Tp4egge (talk) 03:53, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Suggestion for section on science and technology

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hi, just a suggestion, many country articles have sections for 'science and technology', this could be a section on this article as well.

Thanks

John Cummings (talk) 16:58, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

Conflict with another article

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments3 people in discussion

The articles Chile and Uruguay seem both to be suggesting that the countries have the best ranking of Corruption Perceptions Index of Latin America. None of them refers to the latest ranking. I propose to trim down both articles in ranking-related claims as these are difficult to keep up to date and are not always as nuanced/neutral portrayals if countries as one could believe. My personal opinion is that highlighting positive rankings is a sort of country promotion that is widespread in Wikipedia. For example, it would be impossible to highlight the fact that Portugal is the poorest country in Western Europe in the Portugal article? Editors would likely not accept such bad publicity. Dentren | Talk 12:00, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi User:Dentren I'd disagree there. If you look at an article such as Switzerland, the title includes sections such as "A developed country, it has the highest nominal wealth per adult". If you look at the CPI (corruption perception Index), it seems Uruguay is ahead of Chile as of now, and would argue the countries tend to stay quite similar. See here:https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2021

SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 17:30, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

SerAntoniDeMiloni, if Uruguay lead the latest ranking then both the Uruguay and Chile articles need to be revised to include the latest ranking among its cited sources. Dentren | Talk 17:48, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
Dentren Absolutely. SerAntoniDeMiloni (talk) 17:49, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
Done. SteelerFan1933 (talk) 20:17, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Developed or developing

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

It used to say developed but now it says developing, and there is no real source here, so which should we use? Jishiboka1 (talk) 11:57, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Should word it more like this.Moxy-  01:30, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Ethnicity

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The source used for "ethnicity" in the infobox, Atlas Sociodemográfico, does not list etnicities, but ethno-racial origins ("origen o procedencia étnica racial") which is not the same as ethnicity. Common "ethnoracial" descent is not synonymous with ethnicity. Dentren | Talk 13:03, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

CIA?

Latest comment: 1 year ago1 comment1 person in discussion

In this section we have the following sentence: "The CIA-backed campaign of political repression and state terror involving intelligence operations and assassination of opponents was called Operation Condor."

I wonder what people thought of the source for this sentence? It doesn't seem particularly neutral. Additionally, it only mentions the CIA once while talking in depth of FBI involvement. 178.197.232.47 (talk) 10:00, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

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Yeísmo

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments2 people in discussion

It says in the article that Argentinian and Uruguayan Spanish are known for 'yeísmo'. This is incorrect these two countries in particular are known for zheísmo/sheísmo https://sites.google.com/a/geneseo.edu/spanish-linguistics/spanish-phonology/zheismo-and-sheismo Blotski (talk) 14:22, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

It is correct. Yeísmo is the lack of a phonemic distinction between the lateral /ʎ/ and the central /ʝ/ (the name means Y-ism, i.e. the pronunciation of LL as Y, which is the only direction the merger can go in Spanish). Zheísmo/sheísmo are reduntant terms that refer to two particular realizations of /ʝ/, as [ʒ] and [ʃ], so the terms conflate phonemes with allophones (judging by their etymology. Where do you have ZH and SH in native Spanish words?) For the sake of comparison, the cot-caught-merged phoneme in North American English is not always [ɑ] (even though it's almost universally written as such), as it can be [ɒ], [ä] or even [ɔ] instead. So it can be closer to both cot and caught in the unmerged North American accents, depending on the dialect and even individual speaker. All the name cot-caught merger implies that the words differentiated only by the vowel /ɑ/ or /ɔ/ become homophonous. Sol505000 (talk) 14:13, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Recent edits replacing "the Americas" with "South America"

Latest comment: 6 months ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Hi @Intilyc: I noticed your recent edit that replaces "the Americas" with "South America". While your change is described as "clarifying language", I believe this is inaccurate as the new phrasing refers to a much smaller region. In particular, with respect to democracy related measurements, Uruguay is effectively ranked first among all the Americas in the democracy index, not just South America, so the original phrasing is more accurate. The same is true with respect to digital coverage. Can you please review or undo your changes or clarify that these achievements relate to all the Americas, not just South America? Ocampoernesto (talk) 13:30, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I assumed that these categories were specifically about South America, given some of the provided sources. Doing some deeper digging though, you are totally correct. I can't confirm all of these, as the link to citation 112 is dead, but I will just revert the whole thing.
Again, thanks for the heads up. I didn't mean to do Uruguay dirty. Intilyc (talk) 22:29, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
Thank you for your prompt action! You are right about ref 112, it's not easy to find. It seems the original is in French. I found this preview: https://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/2015/10/VENTURA/53938. Ocampoernesto (talk) 16:15, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
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