Talk:Until Dawn/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Megaman en m (talk · contribs) 16:24, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

I thought someone would've picked this article up by now. I already did some copyediting, might as well go the full mile. Megaman en m (talk) 16:24, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

•  Done The fair-use rationale (WP:FUR) for the gameplay image is not stated.Megaman en m (talk) 16:44, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed rationale.
    • It still needs a reason for why it's not replaceable with free media. I'd just re-use the wording used in other pictures. The gameplay picture for God of War III has this bit of text in here "The image is not replaceable because there is no free equivalent of the game. It is also because the game is copyrighted and all screenshots from the game are copyrighted, so no free image can exist because it is an image from a copyrighted work.".--Megaman en m (talk) 17:34, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
      • Addressed.
        • I think that should cover it. I don't see anything requiring "respect for commercial opportunities" to be filled in as far as I can tell.--Megaman en m (talk) 08:58, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Lead

•  Done Nowhere does it directly state that Pete Samuels is the producer, just the CEO (infobox).--Megaman en m (talk) 16:56, 11 August 2019 (UTC)The Inpatient decorre mais de 60 anos antes de Until Dawn |work=Video Gamer |last=Martins |first=Pedro |date=June 13, 2017 |accessdate=September 6, 2019}}</ref>
  • Fixed.

•  Done Nik Bowen, Prasana Jeganathan, Brandon Kosinski (infobox) are not sourced or mentioned anywhere.--Megaman en m (talk) 16:56, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed. Sourced Bowen, removed Jeganathan and Kosinski.
    • It says that Nik Bowen was a director though, not a designer.--Megaman en m (talk) 16:49, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
      • Oops! Sorry, I misunderstood the source. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 16:55, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

•  Done Can't find a mention for the exact release dates mentioned in the infobox.--Megaman en m (talk) 16:56, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed.

Gameplay

•  Done "Items can be inspected to discover additional information." As far as I can tell, the source doesn't mention the inspecting part.--Megaman en m (talk) 17:20, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Removed.

•  Done "Each chapter documents a single hour of the evening." Doesn't seem to be sourced.--Megaman en m (talk) 17:20, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Removed.

•  Done "For instance, a weapon previously picked up by a character can be used for self-defense later" Can't find where it says that in the source.Megaman en m (talk) 17:20, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Removed.

Plot

•  Done There is no source for any of the actors.--Megaman en m (talk) 17:44, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Done.

•  Done WP:MOSVG requires the plot to be sourced as well.--Megaman en m (talk) 17:44, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Not helping with this as I really want to play this game eventually.
    • MOSVG does not require plot to be sourced: "Straightforward plot summary is assumed to be sourced to the game itself and thus does not require sources." (WP:VG/PLOT). It's only required for interpretation, which it does not appear to me that this article does. Was there anything in specific that you were looking to be sourced? --PresN 16:12, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
      • I could have sworn that it required at least one source. but I cannot find such a requirement anywhere.--Megaman en m (talk) 16:49, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
        • Sorry for sooping, but came across this one - sources aren't required for non-controversial plot summaries. Similar to how TV and film plot sections work. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:43, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

•  Done "...the mountain is inhabited by wendigos" A small description of what wendigos are or look like would be nice. It could even be an opportunity for a picture in the plot section.--Megaman en m (talk) 17:44, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Tried to describe them in text, but both the evil spirits and man-eating creature are addressed in the following text.
    • To me it seems like wendigos could be just regular humans the way it's written. The only thing that alludes to them not just looking like humans is the term "creatures". It's why I thought a picture would be nice: they're a big part of the game and a picture would describe them better than some prose. Anyways, the picture is definitely not a necessity, but I would like a short prose description of their appeareance. Tall, naked, humanoid creatures?--Megaman en m (talk) 17:18, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
      • Used that description, thank you.

•  Done "...a post-credits stinger" Had to look up what a stinger was. I would replace it with a commonly known synonym, maybe just "scene".--Megaman en m (talk) 17:18, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed.

Development and release

• This section has some problems with sources, especially mixing them up. It is also on the larger side, but nothing stuck out as needing to be removed, not for GA status at least.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:57, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed.

•  Done "British developer Supermassive Games led the game's development, which began in 2010." Can't find a source that it began in 2010.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:57, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed.

•  Done "A segment of the game shown at Gamescom 2012 received positive comments from the gaming community. Byles said the enthusiastic response was due to the game's unique tone, which was thought to be "fresh" compared with that of its competitors. One of the most common complaints received was the game's status as a Move exclusive; most people did not want to purchase a controller for the game. At that time, the game had reached the alpha development stage." Most of this section seems unsourced. I can't find anything about it being shown in Gamescom 2012, Byles' comments, nor did I find anything about the fans' reaction while skimming. On further reading, some of this information seems to be found in the 2016 Kotaku article (number [17]). Maybe the sources got mixed up a bit.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:57, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed.

•  Done "... shifted its target demography to include older adults." Can't find this in the source.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:57, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed.

•  Done "... the team used real-time lighting while giving each character a personal photography director ..." I'm not sure that they literally meant they gave each character a personal photography director. It seems more like they were describing their lighting rig in such a way that it seems that they had one.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:57, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed.

•  Done "The game was designed to be similar to a film. It incorporated a kill camera that showed the deaths of the characters from the murderer's viewpoint." I don't feel that this point alone is enough to justify claiming that the game is designed to be like a film. I'd cut this out.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:57, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed.

•  Done "The scoring process lasted for one year." Can't find the source. Edit: the polygon interview mentions that "Then Graves led three orchestra recording sessions over the course of a year." This only covers the orchestra recording sessions though, not the whole scoring process.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:57, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed.

•  Done "which he felt represented what the team was trying to achieve, and used it as the demo pitch to Supermassive Games" Can't find the source. Edit: it seems to be sourced in the behindtheaudio interview.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:57, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed.

• https://www.thesoundarchitect.co.uk/ isn't on WP:VG/S, but it seems reliable to me.

•  Done "The music was influenced by the work of Krzysztof Penderecki and Jerry Goldsmith." Can't find the source. Edit: again, this is sourced in the behindtheaudio source.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:57, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed.

• https://behindtheaudio.com Doesn't seem reliable to me as a site. However, since this is an interview with the developers that we're quoting, it seems fine to use in this context.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:57, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

•  Done "For the game's mountainous setting, he used a "goat-hoof shaker" to perform the mountain theme and many of the key tracks." Again, wrong source. The source is from the blog.us.playstation interview.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:57, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed.

•  Done "Players who pre-ordered the game received a bonus mission featuring Matt and Emily." It doesn't say anything about it involving Matt or Emily.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:57, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed.

• As an aside, https://www.ign.com/articles/2012/08/06/rain-and-until-dawn-trademarked-by-sony states that the existence of Until Dawn was actually leaked in a trademark. Maybe worth incorporating, maybe not.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:57, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Used it, thanks for finding that!

Critical response

•  Done "Takahashi criticized the camera for making navigation annoying and clunky." Can't find anything about the camera controls, he talked about the 3D navigation being awkward.--Megaman en m (talk) 14:31, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed.

• The section is well-written. There were some gaffes with misspelling the reviewers' names here and there, and one source was missing for the game revolution review. I fixed most of them myself; I also added some more context to a few quotes for good measure.--Megaman en m (talk) 14:31, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

Sales

•  Done "Sony was surprised by the game's critical responses and the number of players posting videos of it on YouTube or streaming it on Twitch.tv" Twitch isn't mentioned anywhere in the source, they were talking about streaming it on YouTube.--Megaman en m (talk) 14:41, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed.

Accolades

•  Done the SXSW Gaming Awards has two sources, yet I can't find Until Dawn mentioned in either of them?--Megaman en m (talk) 14:45, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed.

•  Done The National Academy of Video Game Trade Reviewers source doesn't lead anywhere.--Megaman en m (talk) 14:45, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • [1] Is a press release adequate? - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 16:22, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

Spin-off and prequel

•  Done "Until Dawn: Rush of Blood was released on the PlayStation VR on 13 October 2016" Can't find the source.--Megaman en m (talk) 14:48, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Appears to be addressed in the article here: [2]
    • Not updated in the article yet.--Megaman en m (talk) 17:06, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
      • Whoopsies, fixed.

Responses

Sorry, my hometown is in a bit of a chaotic state now. I may not be able to respond promptly, but I hope you will not close the review. I will look at the issues when I have time, maybe a bit later. OceanHok (talk) 17:07, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

No problem, you can review it whenever you have time.--Megaman en m (talk) 18:32, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

I am planning to close this review if no adjustments are made within seven days. You are free to renominate it after two weeks have passed.--Megaman en m (talk) 09:38, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

@Megaman en m: I think I've fixed all issues, only issue still standing is sourcing for NAVGTR. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 16:47, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

Oops, missed wendigo and fair use issue. I'm honestly not sure what to do about the image, honestly; I do think that an image is valuable for an article in this execution, but I can't for the life of me think of a need for an image. You don't need an image to demonstrate that choice is an aspect of the game, for instance. The only thing I could think of would be if the fair use rationale related to the art style, combined with showing how the gameplay works. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 16:52, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

Well it shows off the game's aesthetic. Furthermore, it is the only image in the article that shows off what the game actually looks like.--Megaman en m (talk) 17:08, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

With all of my points having been addressed, I can no longer keep it from attaining GA status. Good work! If this were to be taken to FA, I suspect they might want to cut down on the development and release section though, but that is a story for another time.--Megaman en m (talk) 09:03, 7 September 2019 (UTC)