Talk:United States and state-sponsored terrorism/Archive 1
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Archive 1 |
Commercial Terrorism
The opening section of the article ends with this sensational claim: "Support was also geared toward ensuring a conducive environment for American corporate interests abroad, especially when these interests came under threat from democratic regimes.[4][5]"
However, when reading the rest of the article, it did not seem to elaborate or back up this statement in any significant way. That definitely seems like an oversight. Either it needs to lay out the case for that statement, or it shouldn't be included in the opening section at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.88.165.61 (talk) 10:24, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Recent revert
The difference between this article and the "state terrorism" article is that this one discusses support to non-state actors. The El Salvador case is support for state actors, however illegitimate they may have been. It belongs there. You can edit that page directly after you have a certain number of edits, or you could use the edit-semi-protected template as before (unclear why you deleted that). Vanamonde93 (talk) 00:18, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
- Um, ok when I have spare time I guess. But that page is just a bunch of arguments back and forth.--S0mewhat Damaged05 (talk) 00:22, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, you're right; but the solution is to fix that (easier said than done, I know!) rather than mess with the inclusion criteria elsewhere. Vanamonde93 (talk) 00:29, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
- It is helpful when disputing an edit to provide a link. It is only state terrorism if it is carried out overtly by governments. Secret actions whether carried out by out-of-uniform or off-duty police or soldiers or by private civilians, even if sponsored by the host government, are not state terrorism. TFD (talk) 21:55, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
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Jundallah
The U.S. never provided material support to Jundallah. What actually happened is that Israeli Mossad agents supporting Jundallah presented themselves as CIA officers. See Foreign Policy:
- The FBI did cultivate sources within Jundallah—which continued even after the CIA barred the most minimal contact with the group after the 2007 Zahedan bombings—but this was intelligence-gathering, not "state-sponsored terrorism." See The New York Times:
Indeed, contradicting earlier reports, it seems Pakistan captured Abdolmalek Rigi and sent him to his death in Iran with U.S. support. Quoting Foreign Policy again:
If this belongs anywhere, it would be at Israel and state-sponsored terrorism.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 23:14, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
Drug trafficking allegations
The article currently states:
- Money was also raised for the Contras through drug trafficking, which the United States was aware of.[1] Senator John Kerry's 1988 Committee on Foreign Relations report on Contra drug links concluded that "senior U.S. policy makers were not immune to the idea that drug money was a perfect solution to the Contras' funding problems".[2]
References
- ^ National Security Archive. "The Contras, cocaine, and covert operations: Documentation of official U.S. knowledge of drug trafficking and the Contras". The National Security Archive/George Washington University.
- ^ "The Oliver North File". George Washington University. Retrieved 17 August 2011.
@Rgr09: Can you provide some feedback? That sounds just vague enough to give a slanted impression of what actually happened. Should the first sentence say "raised by" instead of "raised for"? Also, my impression is that Oliver North floated the idea of using drug money to support the Contras, but that it didn't actually happened. The relevance to this article is a bit lost on me, too. -Location (talk) 17:46, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
La Repubblica and Operation Gladio
This paragraph is one example of what bothers me about the article;
"In 1998, Milan judge Guido Salvini indicted U.S. Navy officer David Carrett on charges of political and military espionage for his participation in the Piazza Fontana bombing et al. Salvini also opened up a case against Sergio Minetto, an Italian official of the U.S.-NATO intelligence network, and "collaboratore di giustizia" Carlo Digilio (Uncle Otto), who served as CIA coordinator in Northeastern Italy in the sixties and seventies. The newspaper la Repubblica reported that Carlo Rocchi, CIA's man in Milan was discovered in 1995 searching for information concerning Operation Gladio."
Keep in mind that la Repubblica is traditionally a radical-left paper, so naturally, they're going to go along with the Soviet line that and tell people that it was a false flag terrorist plot by the CIA, rather than the anti-communist stay behind organization that it truly was. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 12:34, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
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NPOV
- This article only contains about 7 examples .
- Piazza Fontana bombing USA involvement is disputed as per reliable sources and there were 3 trials in Italy. USA involvement is only a conspiracy theory.
- Years of Lead (Italy) local both left-wing and right-wing incidents of political terrorism.USA involvement is debated is not terrorism
- 1973 Chilean coup d'état and United States intervention in Chile is not terrorism in almost all reliable sources. USA direct involvement in Chilean coup has been debated and most and is a only a conspiracy theory as per most reliable sources.Even then is not Terrorism.Death of Salvador Allende is suicide after almost several investigations.
- Orlando Bosch and Luis Posada Carriles is WP:UNDUE
- Right-wing paramilitarism in Colombia .USA involvement is limited and is Human Rights Violation
- Los Pepes is an anti Drug movement killing Pablo Escobar and drug lords even if killed extra judicially is not terrorism only Human Rights Violations.Nervegolgi (talk) 20:09, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
- There's no substance to any of this. a) If there is controversy over US involvement supported by reliable sources, that should be added to the article; no such attempt has been made. b)
"USA involvement is debated is not terrorism"
Aside from being ungrammatical: Wikipedia doesn't care what you have to say about this. We present what reliable sources say. Do you have any sources that contradict what's in the article? c) The article doesn't discuss the 1973 coup at all: have you even read it? The assassination of Schneider may or may not belong here; but that's a different discussion. d)"Orlando Bosch and Luis Posada Carriles is WP:UNDUE"
Why? Do you have sources about them presenting a different narrative? e) Does something being a human rights violation preclude it from being terrorism? Again, it's the sources that matter. f) ditto. TL;DR: you've provided no sources at all backing up anything you say: you need to do that. Vanamonde (talk) 20:33, 7 November 2018 (UTC)