Talk:USS Chesapeake (1799)/Archive 1

Rigging

The article said that the Chesapeake's maneuverability was impaired by damage to her rigging. But Broke's after-action report said her rigging was unharmed. It was Chesapeake's wheel which was destroyed. Geo Swan 21:03, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Chesapeake was sailable after the battle with little repair, hence she was unimpaired. However, during the battle the sheets of her headsails were shot away, which would make her unmanoeuvreable for a few vital minutes. Because her helmsmen then wheel were disabled and her headsail sheets shot away she "luffed up" when going past Shannon, lost headway and then started making sternway (going backwards) until her port quarter came fast against the starboard midships of the Shannon.

The repair of the damage to the rigging would be a matter of a few minutes work, though as the whole action only took fifteen minutes start to finish the loss of the headsail sheets was an important factor in the Chesapeake's defeat.

Urselius (talk) 14:07, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

36 or 38 guns?

Although www.history.navy.mil and a lot of sources put the Chesapeake at 36 guns, there are also a lot of sources that put it at 38 guns. I tried to Google search this, and I'm seeing both numbers come up with some consistency. Is this due to some difference in how the US Navy and Royal Navy rated frigates at the time? -Eisnel 08:03, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

I don't know that a precise choice is really possible - in the end, captains were generally free to scrounge cannons and cut holes in the side for them (handy to have carpenters aboard!), so the 36/38 is more of a convention than anything else. I think 36 best corresponds with US practice and intention; it wouldn't surprise me if a British author or two pumped it up to 38 to make Leopard's victory seem more impressive :-) . Stan 17:59, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

: Carronades--short-ranged heavy cannon that took up very little space and used few crew. Most ships had a few sandwiched into one area of the ship to give a bit more broadside weight in close-range slugging matches. The British didn't count them, or counted them in some strange fashion depending on the era. Depending on which system you use, a ship can have up to 10 guns more or less. Any variations in reporting were probably due to civilian lack of knowledge about the navy.

Also, captains weren't free to 'cut holes in the side.' Many ships were already overgunned as issued, but many captains would swap out cannon and carronades to suit their fighting-style, as well as to include their own personal, familer pieces. Therealhazel

U.S. Navy listed Chesapeake as a "36-gun" frigate, but the final number varied depending on the wishes of the captain. Constitution was rated 44 but often carried 50. [[--Gcal1971 (talk) 19:18, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm making this article my next target after Constitution and so far I've found one source that claims the 36's were later re-rated to 38's so with that in mind, these are 38's officially. --Brad (talk) 21:13, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Recycled timbers.

This article is incorrect. Firstly, it states that the ship was broken up at Plymouth - not so, it was Portsmouth.

The second point I wished to make was more of an addition. Many of the timbers were still serviceable and were sold to a local Miller who re-used them to built a watermill which became known as The Cheseapeake Mill. It's in Wickham, Hampshire, near Fareham and just up the road from Gosport/Portsmouth. I know this because I visited the mill today.

Visit http://www.chesapeakemill.co.uk/

Dr. S.

William Cox

When the Shannon captured the Chesepeake, a third lieutenant ended up in command when the captain, first, and second lieutenant were all casualties. He was later court-martialed for leaving his post to take the mortally wounded captain to the surgeon without orders, which was what he was doing when the second lieutenant died. This is purported by Robert Heinlein to be the largest number of command chain layers to be disrupted in combat, in his novel Starship Troopers. However the incident is fact. If someone wants to verify it, this might be interesting history or information to include.

This incident also inspired The Key to Honor, a book by Ron Wanttaja http://www.wanttaja.com/index.html#Who based on speculation on who command would have devolved on in Cox's absence. http://www.wanttaja.com/navlinks/#Key1

If anyone can dig up a reference for the actual event you might want to include it. I don't have one readily available, so I won't be so bold as to do it myself. Phil 05:45, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Some relevant information

HMS Shannon (classed as a '38' gun frigate) size: 1053 tons burthen

Armament: Main battery/upper deck: 28 x 18 pdr guns Quarterdeck: 1 x long 6pdr gun 2 x 9pdr guns 2 x 12pdr carronades 1 x 12pdr boat-carronade 14 x 32pdr carronades Forecastle: 2 x 9pdr guns 2 x 32 pdr carronades 52 guns in total (the 3 x 12 pounder carronades were very small and had been mounted by Broke largely so that the young midshipmen and ship's boys could practice on cannon light enough for them to handle).

USS Chesapeake (classed variously as a '36' or '38' gun frigate) size: 1244 tons burthen

Armament: Main battery/upper deck: 28 x 18pdr guns Quarterdeck & Forecastle: 1 x 18 pdr gun 20 x 32 pdr carronades 49 guns total

As can be seen the American ship was slightly the larger of the two but their armament was very similar. At the time the force of a ship was usually calculated as "weight of metal." This was the aggregate of the weight of all the cannonballs capable of being fired in one broadside (ie when half of the cannon (all the guns on the same side) were fired). The British weight of metal was 547 pounds, the American weight of metal was 581 pounds.

The two ships were very well matched with no preponderence of force on either side.

Any good book on the period will give the same information (eg. P. Padfield: Broke and the Shannon , Hodder and Stoughton 1968. or R. Gardiner: Frigates of the Napoleonic Wars, London, 2000).

Urselius (talk) 09:32, 10 April 2008 (UTC)