Talk:Turrbal language

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Requested move 22 February 2023 edit

Latest comment: 1 year ago9 comments5 people in discussion

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

It was proposed in this section that Turrbal language be renamed and moved to Yuggera and Turrbal languages.

result:
No consensus. After more than a month and a relist, still see no agreement below, so consensus is yet to be constructed toward the highest and best title for this article. Do see much constructive discussion below, though, so as is usual with a no-consensus outcome, editors can strengthen their arguments, discover new ones, and try again in a few months to garner consensus for a name change. Thanks and kudos to editors for your input; everyone stay healthy! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 12:51, 25 March 2023 (UTC)Reply

Move logs: source title · target title

This is template {{subst:Requested move/end}}

Turrbal language → Yuggera and Turrbal languages – There appears to be no consensus as to whether Turrbul is a dialect of Yuggera or a language in it's own right. For example, the slq lists them as separate languages (https://www.slq.qld.gov.au/discover/first-nations-cultures/aboriginal-and-torres-strait-islander-languages) while the AIATSIS classifies Turrbul as a variety of Yuggera (https://collection.aiatsis.gov.au/austlang/language/E23). Additionally, the AIATSIS page for Turrbul lists Yuggera as an alternate name so it's hard to know which language is being referred to in sources. Considering the importance of language in Indigenous identity and the dispute as to whether the the Turrbul are a sub group of the Yuggera or not, I think it's best to have an and in the title as I can't think of a general title that respects both positions. If anyone has a suggestion, I would love to hear it. Safes007 (talk) 14:33, 22 February 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. No such user (talk) 12:44, 2 March 2023 (UTC)Reply

Comment: If it is not clear whether they are distinct languages or not, then why is a title being proposed that says they are different (or at least multiple) languages? —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 16:48, 8 March 2023 (UTC)Reply
Firstly because I can't think of a better title and secondly there is a difference between the technical use of the term 'language' in linguistics versus common use both broadly and specifically by the Indigenous groups that use the language. Safes007 (talk) 06:55, 9 March 2023 (UTC)Reply
Oppose. Language–dialect distinctions are frequently blurry, and while I can appreciate the effort to try to create a compromise solution here, I think the proposal is a bit too clunky to really be desirable. I think a better solution would be to retain one name as the article title, and have the other title either redirect here or host a separate article about that language. (The uncertainty over whether the two languages are separate can then be discussed in the body of the article/articles.) In particular, I worry that a title ending in "...languages" might mislead readers into thinking that they're reading an article on a language family rather than just two languages. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 15:27, 17 March 2023 (UTC)Reply
Out of this particular discussion's scope (because it would need a multi-move RM): so just out of curiosity, what do you think of Turrbal language → Turrbal and Turrbal → Turrbal people? Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 19:35, 18 March 2023 (UTC)Reply
If we kept the current name here, I would suggest Turrbal langauge and Turrbal people, similar to French language and French people Safes007 (talk) 15:30, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply

Would another solution be to name the article 'Yagera language family' or similar? Then all the languages could be listed under separate headings with a description of the different classifications. I'd use yagera for the title as it appears to be the name of the family in the most recent academic source I could find in Dixon (2002). Safes007 (talk) 15:29, 19 March 2023 (UTC)Reply
Wouldn't that be a distinct subject that could potentially merit its own distinct article? Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 23:04, 20 March 2023 (UTC)Reply

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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