Talk:Tryfan

Moel Tryfan

I was re-directed to Tryfan from Moel Tryfan while cross checking links from North Wales Narrow Gauge Railway. I know enough to know these are different mountains, 9½ miles apart.

Can we have the re-direct taken off please? AHEMSLTD 14:22, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Scrambling

Tryfan is the only mountain on the British mainland to require scrambling to reach the summit, isn't it? I've always thought it was, and have just said so in the article, but a quick Google doesn't yield any reliable verification. The question is of course in two parts:

1. Does Tryfan absolutely require scrambling? (I've always scrambled to the top, but then I've never been interested in finding a non-scrambling route.)
2. Are there any other mountains on the mainland requiring scrambling? (I can't think of any, but it's hard to prove a negative.)

According to Scrambles in Snowdonia, "Pundits say you can't climb the mountain without at some point using your hands for support" – hardly a definitive answer. Further Reliable sources welcome!

I removed the line saying that the scrambling can be avoided by means of Heather Terrace, as IIRC this avoids the summit (by quite a long way) as well as the scrambling. --Blisco 09:27, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

You definitely can't go up the north ridge without using your hands at some point, and, as Blisco points out, Heather Terrace is more of a high level route round the mountain than a route to the top. The closest you can get to a hands-free ascent is by walking round the back, past Llyn Bochlwyd, to Bwlch Tryfan, and then heading up the south ridge. I'm very doubtful whether you could make a hands-free ascent this way, though. BTW, I always thought that "Lake Australia" or "Australia Lake" as a name for Bochlwyd was entirely part of the dubious folklore of Bangor University Mountain Walking Club, as the lake doesn't carry that name on any edition of the relevant OS map. A quick Google suggests I'm wrong, however, so I'll put a reference in the text. Bedesboy 08:52, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Can't be ascended without use of hands? That sounds like a challenge. On a more relevant note: for means of assent perhaps the various multipitch routes on the east face should be mentioned? I am not really familiar with the rules of verification here but rockfax lists several http://www.rockfax.com/databases/results_buttress.html?id=2058 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.180.77.85 (talk) 17:48, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

While I agree that Tryfan can't be ascended without the use of hands, I don't believe it is only the such mountain on the British mainland. Indeed in the Crib Goch articleCrib Goch it mentions that the easiest "Bad Step" route is a grade 1 scramble "where hands and feet are both needed briefly". On that basis I've edited the Tryfan article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.147.52.105 (talk) 19:35, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Tryfan can indeed be ascended without using the hands, at least by the South Ridge (I verified this two days ago). This excludes, of course, getting on top of Adam and Eve. But scrambling is much more natural and safer. I have deleted the sentence with the common claim that Tryfan cannot be climbed without using hands since it can sound like a dangerous challenge and it is not factual. The rest of the paragraph makes it clear that the South Ridge route is a grade 1 scramble, which should be sufficiently clear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.208.18.174 (talk) 17:06, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

pronunciation

The pronunciation is neither English nor Welsh. I made a guess that it was supposed to be Welsh. Could someone fix, please? (I went to Welsh alphabet to work it out, but they're ambiguous too.) kwami (talk) 02:23, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't know what you mean by the English pronunciation. My experience of English pronunciation of Welsh names (Tryfan included) is that they are just a variety of approximations to the Welsh pronunciation depending on how familiar the speaker is with how Welsh pronunciation and orthography — i.e. there is no single "English pronunciation" of Tryfan, just a variety of incorrect pronunciations. I certainly don't think [trɪ'fan] is the English pronunciation, if that's what you're suggesting. As to the (Welsh) pronunciation, what do you think it is? [ˈtrʌvan] sounds right to me. — ras52 (talk) 11:07, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

I didn't know if the y was [ɨ] or [ə]. We should stick to whichever symbols we use in the Welsh article. <ʌ> is a convention for English, but even there is inaccurate, and AFAIK doesn't occur in Welsh. kwami (talk) 12:48, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, if that's the choice, I guess the y is [ə]. But I'm not at all convinced that y has to be one of these. See the Snowdon article where a different editor has given the pronunciation of Yr Wyddfa as [ɐɾ 'wɪðva] — i.e. the two ys are [ɐ] and [ɪ], not [ɨ] or [ə]. — ras52 (talk) 21:01, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

The first is odd because its a grammatical word (think of "of" in English), and the second is a local dialectical pronunciation. kwami (talk) 01:08, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Im named after this mountain and the pronounciation is 'truv-an'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.20.12.158 (talk) 22:03, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Great! Is that truv rhyming with love, and an as in ant? kwami (talk) 23:34, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it is correctly pronounced as in "Truv-ann", with emphasis on the first syllable. Given that's what the IPA on the page says, and there has been no more debate in the last 8 weeks, I'm going to remove the "dubious - discuss" tag. (Note that many people incorrectly pronounce it, which is, I guess, why disrcepancy arises.) Hogyn Lleol (talk) 11:08, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm restoring the tags, since the first syllable is in English, and the second is in Welsh. A consistent transcription for one language or the other would be nice. kwami (talk) 19:32, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I've now changed the second syllable so that both are "English" IPA. (I believe that's solved it, so I've removed tag again.) Hogyn Lleol (talk) 07:09, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I changed it from Welsh to English. kwami (talk) 08:58, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

We need to ID the language. Either it's English, in which case we link to the English IPA key, or it's Welsh, in which case we link to the generic IPA key. We shouldn't leave it for the reader to puzzle out without any link or dab. kwami (talk) 12:00, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

The problem here, I guess, is that it's a Welsh word, but as this is an English Wiki, it uses a pronunciation form for English speakers. It does seem to make sense as it is now on the page, but I'm happy for you to change it further (I don't know much about IPA, I'm afraid, just how Welsh words are pronounced!) Presumably this problem has arisen on other pages ..... Hogyn Lleol (talk) 15:23, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

There's no problem using the Welsh pronunciation. We just use a template like {{pron}} or {{IPA-all}} that's not specific to English, plus we need to specify that it's Welsh, because readers may otherwise assume English. My problem with Welsh is only that I don't know the local pronunciation of the y, which is AFAIK is dialectically variable. If you can vouch whether it's [ɨ] or [ə] or whatever, then we should be good to go. kwami (talk) 19:20, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Having had a look at IPA-en I can confirm that is it is pronounced [ˈtrəvæn]. Please feel free to change it on the main page. (The sound of the 'y' is dictated by its position in the word, i.e not in the last syllable, rather than any local variation.) Hogyn Lleol (talk) 11:16, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Surely there's usually stress, or more stress, on the first vowel? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:09, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Yes, that's true - see earlier comments above. ie. it's pronounced "tru-van" (rhymes with "Love Ann"), with emphasis on first syllable. (added:) Aha, I see why you're asking now! Yes, he's wrong! Hogyn Lleol (talk) 18:26, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Popular route

What is the source for the statement that the most popular route is via the North ridge. My thought would have been that the route from the col at Bwlch Tryfan is the most popular. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.147.52.105 (talk) 19:39, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

geology section needed

Any volunteers? --Money money tickle parsnip (talk) 05:00, 11 December 2014 (UTC)