Talk:Trowulan

No Capital Offense

First of all, a huge thank you to User:Gunkarta for getting this article off the ground. Nice work! Thanks so much for all of your contributions to WPIndonesia!

I thought I'd raise again the question about Trowulan as the capital city. There are some books saying just that. For example: Southeast Asia: From Prehistory to History (Peter S. Bellwood and Ian Glover), p. 251: the ruins at Trowulan are "almost certainly the capital" of Majapahit. I do think there are other books/articles saying that we don't really know what/where is the capital.

There's the matter of the name. From what I understand, "Trowulan" is the name of the modern-day village; the capital is usually called Majapahit and/or Bubat, these are the "twin cities." I've read some debate as to which one was the "capital," per se--that Bubat was where foreigners were received... Anyway, I assume Trowulan is where the ruins of these twin cities are? OR? Is there debate about it? My understanding is that the ruins at Trowulan were pretty badly ruined over the centuries--picked apart by locals looking for treasures, building materials, etc. Anyway, if we could post up some of the debate here, OR, if it's been pretty well established, let's get that up. Again, and most importantly: nice job getting this rolling! --Smilo Don 00:40, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Ahh... finaly an appreciation, you're welcome! As far as I know there's almost 100% well established beliefs that Trowulan indeed the capital city of Majapahit, well at least among Indonesian historians. The description of Chinese 15th century source, Nagarakertagama, and the scaterred ruins in site fit neatly to the Trowulan geographic conditions. Trowulan indeed the name of present village. "Wulan" means moon in Javanese, I don't know the connection of present name with the capital. Tradition called the capital city of Majapahit as "Wilwatikta", kind of poetic name for the city in ancient book.

As far as I know Majapahit capital city just simply called "Majapahit". According bitter Maja fruit tree in the site during the foundation of Tarik wilderness into a settlement by Raden Wijaya. While "Bubat" is the name of village where a big square located.

While Bubat is located north from the capital city. So if visitor come from Majapahit ports (Tuban, Gresik, Canggu) will reach Bubat first before reaching Majapahit city center. Bubat is the location of Bubat massacre in tragic Kidung Sundayana or Pasunda Bubat story. Wheather village of Bubat is outside and quite far from Majapahit city or inside Majapahit city is still unclear. However mostly believed Bubat is located within Majapahit capital vicinity. One of the square in north part of Majapahit capital. Bubat and Majapahit never considered "twin cities", since Bubat is believed to be just a village, part of whole Majapahit capital. Gunkarta 17:37, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Copy edit and reordering

Fascinating article! I've done some copy editing, which I hope hasn't changed the meaning anywhere -- if so, apologies. I've also changed the order of the material in an attempt to gather all the archaeological material into one place, and to make the distinction between the literary & other contemporary sources a little clearer for those who aren't experts. I hope that this hasn't screwed anything up! Espresso Addict 04:04, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Glad you like it. Nice work on copy editing. Much easier to understand and really please the eyes. I done several editing on your previous edit especially about scholars try to drawn the map of the capital: "different" conclusion do not always means "contradictory" conclusions, so I return it to "different". Thank you for your work on the copy editing.202.158.16.253 14:29, 1 October 2007 (UTC)