Talk:Trespass/GATrespass

GA Review

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Reviewer: Ironholds (talk) 12:39, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

General problems

I'm quite tempted to quickfail this, quickfast. It completely fails to give a worldwide view of the topic, most of the references are to cases and not to the third-party sources we prefer, and said case references don't take into account the lay status of the average reader. Ironholds (talk) 12:39, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, I cannot see how one extends the worldview of this article beyond common law jurisdictions. While I concede that more sources citing cases from such jurisdictions as South Africa, India, and Australia are desirable, the current case law provided from cases in the U.S., UK, and Canada covers variations in trespass law exceedingly well. Besides, Commonwealth countries find decisions in Canada and the UK as persuasive precedent. I can only conclude that you desire to extend the article to include analogous conduct under civil law systems. Unfortunately, trespass (the tort) does not exist in these systems in any form substantively similar to common law (i.e. as a tort), and criminal trespass, which does exist in these systems in a roughly similar form (i.e. Hausfriedensbruch), ought to be given a separate article like assault. (The closest thing in German law to trespass to land/chattel is found under property law at §§ 861-64 BGB, sections outlining remedies for property right interference by so-called disturbers. Trespass to person finds no analog other than the general liability provided at § 823 BGB and at § 825 (sexual assault).) Perhaps I should move this article to trespass (tort). Secondly, I would note that a number of articles categorized as "good" dealing with legal topics often contain majority case references. Should "we" eschew direct sources of law—cases—in favor of regurgitations of the law, thereby failing to use the best available sources? Thirdly, I refuse to concede that the average reader will find it exceedingly difficult to understand that a reference to a court case after a statement indicates the statement finds support therein. Andy85719 (talk) 21:49, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

No, I never stated they'd find it difficult to understand it as a source; case citations to a layperson are unlikely to be understood. The problems with the scope are threefold. One, you do not adequately distinguish between jurisdictions. Canadian cases mixed in with English cases mixed in with US cases; writing "in some jurisdictions this happens" does not, for the lay reader, adequately explain which jurisdictions. While we will evenually have articles on the law in various jurisdictions (see Trespass in English law - I'm not entirely unfamiliar with this area) that does not remove the need for the central article to adequately explain the law in different jurisdictions by jurisdiction, not in some mass of law which is useless to the lawyer and the layperson because it is a mix from different places. Secondly, I do not mean to suggest you include civil law equivalents, but rather that there should be sections on the law in other jurisdictions. Canadian, US and English precedents are normally followed, but consider Rylands v Fletcher. Canada follows it, England follows it as a sub-tort, and the US follows it in some jurisdictions, albeit with a bizarre interpretation of "strict liability". This does not make a decent article for the case without explaining that in this situation, England is following Australia's precedent, Singapore has come up with a different twist and Scotland has eliminated the idea all together. The necessity for worldwide scope is just that; it must be worldwide, not limiting it to those jurisdictions you feel are more important than others (particularly when you haven't considered Australia, which can come up with some pretty groundbreaking tort decisions). Thirdly, on the subject of citing cases; those are primary sources, and yes, we eschew primary sourcing. Citing textbooks allows you to give academic impressions and opinions as well as the law. This does not mean you should not include case citations, as I do, but they should not be your "source". I also doubt you just picked the cases out of your mind; I assume you got it from a practitioners text or textbook of some kind? It is improper and contrary to policy to cite something found as a citation in another document, both alone and when actually basing your statements on the "other document". Ironholds (talk) 04:26, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Should we split to Trespass and Trespass (US)? I agree that the body of this reads as US Law and not as the international philosophical concept of trespass. Endercase (talk) 13:31, 2 February 2017 (UTC)