Talk:Treaty of Aigun

Treaty of Ai-hun (Aigun)

Some questions rose of the Treaty of Ai-hun. Russian sources claims it was signed at Aigun (Chinese Ai-hun) on the south side of Amur River in 1858 by Russian General Muraviev backed with Russian arms. But how this fits in the picture: "The British and French had opened a door into South China for their merchants. The Russians felt that the time had come for them to open a door in the north. Diplomatic negotiations between the Russian and Chinese Governments commenced and the Treaty of Aihun was signed, giving Russia the left bank of the Amur, while establishing joint ownership of the land between the Ussuri River and the Pacific. The right of Russian and Chinese to trade freely with each other, and on Chinese territory, was quaranteed. While General Muraviev negotiated this treaty backed by force of arms at Aihun (aout halfway between Albazino, the scene of Russia´s first defeat 1685 by China, and Nerchinsk, the scene of her first treaty 1689) another similar treaty was signed by Russian and Chinese diplomatic representantives at Tientsin. In 1860 a new treaty, confirming the former documents, was signed and the building of Vladivostok began. The native (Giliak) population of the Ussuri region did not welcome Chinese rule in this area, and it appears that the Russians assumed complete control of it with little difficulty, although there were considerable Chinese population and Chinese labour was used by the Russians in building Vladivostok."

But then I found this transliterarion of "Special Report (Recueil Consulaire Volume 160 No 2)" prepared by the Belgian Minister to Russia 1913.

"By the Treaty of Ai-hun (Aigun) of 1864, confirmed in St.Petersburg in 1881, which transferred to Russia the territory now known as the Maritime Province and the eastern portion of the Amour Province, it was stipulated that, in zone of 50 versts in depth on each side of the frontier, free trade without custom dues between Russian and Chinese subjects was to be allowed during the duration of the treaty. The Treaty of St.Petersburg expired in 1911, and the Russian Government then decided to put an end of the existence of this free zone. the decision was put into force from 1 January 1912. Though the wording of of the treaty did not olace any restriction on the origin of the goods which could benefit by the clause, in practice its operation was confined on the Russian side to the admission into the free area of goods of Chinese origin only. The frontier between Russia and China following the Amour and Ussuri rivers, and the great mass of population having been settled along hese rivers, the free zone embraced, with the exception of Nikolaievsk and Vladivostok, all the important centres of Pri- Amour. Since the abrogiation of the free zone clause the inhabitants all through these riverside areas are assimilated to the rest of the population of the Pri-Amour and must pay duty on goods coming from Manchuria in accordance with the Russian customs tariff. However, the results of the measure are not much felt in this region, the only commodity having a really large import from Chinese territory being flour. On Harbin the effects must be serious, for this town, which came into existence with the building of the Russian owned Chinese Eastern Railway, and is still the headquarters of the railway´s management, is to all intents and purposes Russian, and has developed during the short time of its existence into a fairly important and industrial commercial centre. The trade of Harbin is mainly in Russian hands, and its produce has till now found its principal market in Russian territory, to which, under the 50 versts belt clause, in penetrated free of customs. Harbin has seven large flour mills and the total output of about 60.000 tons. This flour is now subject to a duty of 45 copeks the pood all over the Pri-Amour. other industries, though of far less importance, are manufacture of candles, linseed oil, soap, and beer."

JN

Treaty between Russia and Ta Tsing

The treaty was done in Russian and Manchu. Manchu was the official language of the Ta Tsing. There was no Han (Chinese) version. Therefore, we should try not to describe this from a sino-centric viewpoint.Alamoana (talk) 06:57, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

It is perfectly true that the country was ruled by the Qing Dynasty (or, if you wish, "Tsing", or "Ch'ing" - but modern books seem to go for Pinyin mostly), and many officials (especially in the northeast) were Manchus, and that of course should be mentioned when appropriate. But as far as foreign relations are concerned, the country is still conventionally described as "China" or "Chinese Empire" in most books in English. And, incidentally, 大清 (Da Qing in Pinyin) is the Chinese name of the state ruled by the Manchu dynasty, so by saying "Da Qing" (or "Ta Tsing" or "Ta Ch'ing") instead of China one won't exactly leave the "Sino-centric viewpoint" either :-) Vmenkov (talk) 10:54, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Diplomatically and internationally, the Qing Dynasty as known as China, and the Chinese Empire, that is evidently the name used on encyclopedia sources from the 19th century and most Western sources (newspapers, articles, prints). Western maps that are contemporaneous of the Qing Dynasty also prints the name China or Chinese Empire.--TheLeopard (talk) 16:50, 22 May 2009 (UTC)