Talk:Traditionalism (Spain)

Balmes' picture

sorry User:Parair for undoing your edit. My rationale is as follows: Donoso already enjoys an exclusive picture in this entry, and I think in all fairness Balmes also deserves to have an exclusive one. Besides, I think the two met only few times (once?) and have barely collaborated, so this nice picture would deliver a false impression that they sort of worked together --Dd1495 (talk) 10:17, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

if you could upload some pics of the 20th-century Traditionalists that would be smashing --Dd1495 (talk) 07:42, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

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Traditionalism and race/ethnicity

Hello,

This is a great article which demonstrates a high level of scholarship. What was the Spanish traditionalist take on race and ethnicity? Were they for racial/ethnic preservation? I know that was a component of Francoist Spain but how did it relate to the traditionalist intellectual school? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chingalo (talk • contribs) 18:37, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Hello, Traditionalism is clearly anti-racist. The Traditionalists are actually getting furious about racism, as they associate it with Basque nationalism, one of key Traditionalist foes. Traditionalism is also - though not equally clearly - hostile to nationalism (in its ethnicity-based version) and to related forms of exalting ethnicity. For the Traditionalists a community is formed by history and tradition REGARDLESS of ethnic features - so they declare the Basques or the Catalans to be Spaniards, even if these Basques do not understand Spanish at all. Some scholars consider this approach a case of Spanish nationalism, which in my opinion is not correct. This is rather an approach rooted in the pre-1789 era, before nationalism was born. Cheers, --Dd1495 (talk) 14:10, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Traditionalism and Judeo-Masonic conspiracy theory

Hello again,

Was there any engagement with the Judeo-Masonic conspiracy theory among Spanish Traditionalist thinkers? I wonder because it was quite popular among other European Traditionalists and Francisco Franco himself. Do you know of any Spanish Traditionalist thinkers who wrote on the topic of the Judeo-Masonic conspiracy, or academic discourse from Francoist Spain on the matter?

all the best, Chingalo — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chingalo (talk • contribs) 18:39, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

hello, yes, the Judeo-Masonic conspiracy theory was indeed present in the Traditionalist thought. It has never been on the forefront and perhaps even naming it a secondary thread would be sort of an overstatement (in general, not in case of specific periods). You might find such threads in works of greatest Traditonalist thinkers, from Balmes to de Mella. Many Traditionalist periodicals advanced the Judeo-Masonic conspiracy theory; the key one, El Siglo Futuro, pursued it quite vehemently in the 1930s. A Traditonalist, Marcelino Ulibarri, headed the Francoist anti-masonic tribunal in the 1940s. --Dd1495 (talk) 13:57, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Hello, Chingalo. As key Judeo-Masonic theorists I'd name Luis María de Llauder from the late 19th century - he wrote against the Judeo-Masonic conspiracy as early as in 1892 on El Correo Español (see a few of his articles on Wikisource) and La Hormiga de Oro, and was also the author of the antisemitic book "La Europa judía" (1896) with the pseudonym Tanyeman. From the 1930s I'd name Fabio (Emilio Ruiz Muñoz), one of the main journalists of El Siglo Futuro and also a collaborator of the patriotic review Acción Española. He also authored the book Estudio crítico de los Protocolos (1932). Apart from Fabio, key Traditionalist Judeo-Masonic conspiracy theorists from the 1930s are René Llanas Niubó and especially Juan Tusquets Terrats, although the latter may not have been a 100% Carlist (I'm not sure about it). I hope that helped.--Raderich (talk) 10:02, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

it certainly does. Grateful if you could update the entries related - Llauder, Hormiga de Oro, Fabio and so on. I will try to do it myself, but perhaps you are beter positioned to do it --Dd1495 (talk) 19:26, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Exact references missing

Some number of bibliographical foot notes seem to be missing complete references, I have found "Magín Ferrer 1871", "Caspistegui Gorasurreta 1997", "Clemente 1999", "Ferrer 1952" (about this one, seems an error since I assume the extract the article is refering to is actually this one, which is actually from vol. 20 published in 1955, properly given in the article), there are more. CaféBuzz (talk) 19:33, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello, there were 4 examples of allegedly incomplete bibliographical references given above. I have inspected them one by one.

• "Magin Ferrer 1871". Footnote #159 (numbering as of today) reads "Magin Ferrer 1871, pp. 49–50, referred after Bartyzel 2015, p. 119". I have again checked the source and found that Bartyzel referred to Magin Ferrer’s work from 1843, first mentioned in footnote #156. Have corrected the footnote to "Magin Ferrer 1843, pp. 49–50, referred after Bartyzel 2015, p. 119". Thanks for noting.
• "Clemente 1999". I am referring "Clemente 1999" in footnotes #263, #357 and #360, always with detailed pagination. These footnotes point to José Carlos Clemente Muñoz, El carlismo en el novecientos español (1876–1936), Madrid 1999, ISBN 9788483741535, which is fully referenced in footnote #22. Do not see a need for correction.
• "Caspistegui Gorasurreta 1997". Indeed there is such reference in footnote #391. It was supposed to refer to Caspistegui’s book El naufragio de las ortodoxias, published in 1997. I have failed to notice that in #102 I quoted this work as a PhD thesis, defended in 1996, so indeed a reader looking for a full 1997 reference would not find it. Have changed the reference to "Caspistegui Gorasurreta 1996". Thanks for noting.
• "Ferrer Dalmau 1952". I presume what is meant is footnote #39, which reads "Ferrer 1952, pp. 16–17". Indeed I got the year confused, as volume XX was published in 1955. This footnote was meant to denote Melchot Ferrer, Historia del tradicionalismo español, vol. XX, Sevilla 1955, fully referenced in footnote #34. Hence, I see it not as "incomplete reference", but as reference which got the year wrong. Have corrected to "Ferrer 1955, pp. 16–17". Thanks for noting.

rgds, --Dd1495 (talk) 11:29, 18 September 2023 (UTC)