Talk:Torban

Assessment

Reassessed the article under the Wikiproject Musical Instrument templates. Rating the article start class because it does not have enough material to rate C class; it covers one area, history, but nothing else. It does have "at least one serious element of gathered materials," the photograph. Rating the article mid importance; the instrument has achieved some notability within its particular field or subject (Baroque lutes) and has achieved notability in a particular place or area (European lutes/Ukrainian lutes). To rate high importance, there needs to be an indication that it is a class of instrument "such as major instrument classes (guitar, flute...)." The lute fits this class, there being many kinds of lutes, the guitar and mandolin also are examples of classes. If it is one of a group of instruments, that instrument grouping would receive the high importance rating. Jacqke (talk) 22:15, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Bass strings

The article says:

It differed from the torban by the absence of the bass strings, and was closely related in its organology to central European Mandora and Pandora (see Lute).

Okay, every bandura I've seen has had bass strings, so I'm confused.

I'm guessing I must be familiar with only the modern chromatic concert bandura, then? And the bandura referred to in this article is one of the older (Starovtitska) ones? Did the old ones lack bass strings? The bandura article claims the evolution of the bandura is explained here, but it isn't. Can an expert help me out, and fix one article or the other? Thanks! Corvi 05:03, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

The problem is that bandurists have a foggy idea as to their own instrument organology.

In a nut-shell: Bandura and kobza is the same thing until ca. 1800. "Bass strings" are simply the long ones on the neck, still frettable even later.

Gusli (unfrettable) assume the bandura shape around this time and this becomes "starosvitska" (20th century coinage) bandura. Large diatonic instruments are developed ca. 1900, and chromatic after 1930.

Galassi 01:13, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Torban

A predecessor of the torban called kobza (also known as bandura) was the instrument of the common folk. It differed from the torban by the absence of the bass strings, and was closely related in its organology to central European Mandora and Pandora (see Lute).

This is also problematic - it identifies the kobza and bandura. It's your product, Galassi, is it not? But the kobza-bandura, (which directs to this page) is not a true long-necked lute. There seems no consistency in the idea of "Ukrainian Kobza", which makes it even harder to see why you reject every connection with every non-Ukrainian kobza. Redheylin (talk) 02:22, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

There is no such thing as consistency. Nothing is ever as clear-cut as we'd like it to be. There are hybrid instruments, and hybrid names. On Kobza and Mandora relationship see Jakob Stehlin.Lute88 (talk) 13:52, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

If there is no possibility of consistency and clarity, then it was wrong to remove views that did not accord with your own absolutely clear and consistent, but sadly unreferenced, statements. Redheylin (talk) 23:53, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

There are plenty of references and EXTENSIVE BIBLIOGRAPHY.Galassi (talk) 00:37, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

This material is not covered by verifiable references. It is not even possible to tell(predecessor of the torban called kobza (also known as bandura)) whether the term bandura is meant to refer to kobza, torban or its predecessor.

Please further note that your reversions today are causing a link to a page to which you say it should not point. If you want to point to the page "pandura" please make that change and supply references and disambiguation. Thanks Redheylin (talk) 16:56, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Tugligowski as inventor

"although the likelier possibility is that certain Tuliglowski, a paulite monk from Jasna Gora, was its inventor." I honestly don't know what exactly this is trying to say here. Is it that Tuliglowski is more likely to have invented it in the absence of Western European influence, or that Tuliglowski was the one who came up with it because of this influence? This part of the sentence is completely nonsensical. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 16:15, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Looks much better now, problem solved. Many thanks! The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 17:38, 29 October 2020 (UTC)