Talk:Tooting Bec Lido

British Isles Terminology task force changes

Bit annoyed that a change was made to this article after a long discussion here Wikipedia_talk:British Isles Terminology task force/Specific Examples#Tooting Bec and Tooting Bec Lido without anything being put on this Talk page first.--Lidos (talk) 09:26, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Why are you annoyed exactly? The issue was discussed on the SE page. I used your advice as to the quality of reference to use, and used the reference you recommended. Do you believe that a discussion here would have been more productive? If so, we can always ask people here for their opinions too, the SE page is certainly not binding in terms of content, it's merely a place to discuss edits to try to understand the issues and try to develop rough guidelines. --HighKing (talk) 22:01, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Good idea. Revert your change and pick up the discussion here. Mister Flash (talk) 10:09, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

If British Isles is controversial, by all means feel free to change to 'British and Irish Isles' or some such. The important point here is that there is no other swimming pool as large as Tooting Bec Lido (by surface area) anywhere in the UK or the Republic of Ireland, whether fresh water or salt water. I have reverted to 'British Isles' because to call it 'the largest fresh water pool in England', although true, is less impressive than the equally true fact 'the largest swimming pool in the British Isles'.

So find a reference then. And it's not true - the Jubilee Pool in Penzance is larger. I've reverted to consensus. --HighKing (talk) 18:56, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

The only dimensions I can find for the Penzance pool are that it is 330 ft x 240 ft.([1], corroborated by [2] stating "100 x 73 metres"). As it is triangular, it would seem that the smaller measurement applies to both the shorter sides. That makes it 100.584 metres x 73.152 metres x 73.152 metres, giving a surface area of 2671.603 square metres (as per irregular triangle calculator here). Tooting Bec at 91.44 x 30.18 metres is 2759.66 square metres, so is clearly marginally larger, even when not accounting for the fact that a substantial part of one of the corners of the Penzance pool is cut off to form a separate "baby pool," so can't be included in the contiguous surface area as a whole. I note the discussion at Wikipedia talk:British Isles Terminology task force/Specific Examples, but the claim that Penzance is larger is clearly mathematically unsound. Nick Cooper (talk) 22:56, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

You're right - it was a discussion at Wikipedia_talk:British_Isles_Terminology_task_force/Specific_Examples/Closed#Tooting_Bec_and_Tooting_Bec_Lido that suggested Penzance was larger, but uses a reference that points out that its triangular. --HighKing (talk) 23:29, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

But the reference states it's the biggest in England. Other references state it's the biggest in the UK. The conclusion was to go with England as it's the best reference. As per WP:V --HighKing (talk) 23:32, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

It seems to me that the SE discussion was mis-tracked by Lidos' claim that, "the Jubilee Pool in Penzance (triangular) is larger," when the maths clearly says it isn't. There are therefore two issues with the wording as it stands now. Firstly, using the qualifier of "fresh water" carries an implication that there is a saltwater pool larger. Since the Jubilee Pool is acknowledged as being, "largest open-air seawater pool of its kind still open in the UK,"[3], then by definition Tooting Bec - being larger than Jubilee - is the largest swimming pool of any type. Secondly, and drawing again on the Telegraph reference, if Jubilee is the largest saltwater pool in the UK, then clearly since Tooting Bec is the largest of any type in the UK. Using just "England" for "country" rather than UK implies that there's a larger open air pool in Scotland, Wales, or Northern Ireland. As a comparison, London is, "Britain's largest and most populous metropolitan area, " not "England's largest..." Nick Cooper (talk) 07:32, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I agree that the discussion was mis-tracked, but only at a late stage after most of the discussion had been completed. Nearly all of the SE discussions revolve around references. From the previous discussion:

Given that the more official source from Wandsworth borough states "England", and that other good quality sources state "England" such as South London Swimming Club who use it as their home, and a recent article published by the Times. Although this article published by the BBC uses UK, I'd still go with "England" as best.

To be honest, I don't think using "UK" is incorrect, and the BBC article is a good reference.... --HighKing (talk) 09:18, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Agreed on the BBC source for UK, but then again it also demonstrates another example of what is probably a desire for including as much information as possible coming across as qualifiers. It saying TBL is, "the UK's largest unheated open air pool," could be taken to suggest that there is a larger heated and/or indoor pool! The bottom line is that TBL is the largest purpose built swimming pool of any type - indoor/outdoor, heated/unheated, fresh/salt water, etc. - in the UK. The Jubilee Pool can rightly claim to be the largest saltwater bool, another venue (London Fields?) can claim the largest outdoor heated, another the largest indoor, etc., but none surpass TBL in size, so this should be clearly stated without any ambiguous qualifiers. Nick Cooper (talk) 12:52, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Is it the largest in the British Isles? MidnightBlue (Talk) 16:30, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I think if there was any larger pool in Wales, Scotland, or Northern Ireland, we would have heard about it. Nick Cooper (talk) 21:05, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It probably is. Could even be the biggest something in North Western Europe, or even the world. --HighKing (talk) 08:22, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

HighKing- There's a very easy way of settling the argument, which is the reference I used when I stated that it is the largest in the British Isles- measurement of surface area on Google Earth. Google Earth allows the accurate measurement of sides, and therefore surface area, of all large swimming pools (try it). Using Google Earth, despite extensive searching, I cannot find any other pool in England, Wales, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland or Scotland that is larger, including the Jubilee Pool in Penzance. Nick Cooper is correct. Fresh water, salt water- it doesn't matter- Tooting Bec is largest. The Jubilee pool is the second largest pool in the British Isles, and the largest saltwater pool in the British Isles. I have reverted the article with Google Earth as the reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.25.109.195 (talk) 09:39, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Google Earth does not calculate surface areas or provide lists of largest pools. Also read WP:OR regarding performing your own personal calculations. While, on the other hand, there is a reference that states it is the largest in England, and another that states it is the largest in Britain. Here on Wikipedia, we rely on references, not truth. --HighKing (talk) 12:20, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

WP:OR in fact states:

"This policy allows routine calculations, such as adding numbers, converting units, or calculating a person's age, provided editors agree that the arithmetic and its application correctly reflect the sources."

Calulating the surface area of a rectangle (i.e. Tooting Bec Lido) from the referenced measures measurement is clearly a simple calculation. The same applies to Penzance, even though it is triangular, based on the referenced measurements of the "two longest axes". Tooting Bec Lido is clearly the larger of the two. Also, the basic fact is that nobody has been able to identify any other swimming pool in the UK that is larger than Tooting Bec, and these references bear that out: The Guardian: "the largest pool in the UK"; and [4]: "the largest pool in the UK by surface area". Nick Cooper (talk) 23:00, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

As I've said before, I'm fine with changing this to state it's the largest in Britain, or the UK, since there are good quality references either way. --HighKing (talk) 16:37, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

The main reason given for this act of modernisation

Who gave this reason? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.144.214.127 (talk) 15:35, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

No evidence presented for Aldershot Lido

Why does 62.255.196.241 keep talking about Aldershot Lido without any concrete evidence — Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.148.215.157 (talk) 15:44, 11 November 2016 (UTC)