Talk:Tom Landry

Well-written, but colorless. And how about a photo of Landry?

The article is well-written, but is sort of colorless. First of all, how about a photograph of Landry? I can't understand why there's no photograph in this article about an American icon.

I think that some mention should be made of the players that played under him, such as "Hollywood" Henderson, Tony Dorsett, "Too Tall" Jones, Roger Staubach, etc.

More mention should be made about Landry's appearance, his fedora which he never took off, and his stoic personality on the field. I don't feel that the reader really gets a feeling of how prominent Landry was in American culture and what an American icon he was. Slater79 05:44, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree. A photo would definitely improve this article. -- TomLandry 04:32, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I see a photo has been added but there's something wrong with the caption: "Tom Landry (center) in ." Apoyon (talk) 07:13, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

OK, no disrespect to Mr. Bibbs, but, that photo isn't exactly a great representation of Tom Landry. Where's the signature Fedora? ~Narcissist137.240.136.81 (talk) 22:14, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

I am tired of everyone complaining about the pic and how it "doesnt represent landry". People, if you can find another free picture that is eligable for usage on Wikipedia, then put it up. Otherwise, shut your trap. Jwalte04 (talk) 22:59, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

The image in question is Image:Tom Landry Reggie Bibbs.jpg, in case anyone's curious. I added it to the article because it's a perfectly good representation of Landry (large, focused, facing the camera, not wearing a strange expression, etc.), though of course not ideal. Please don't remove it unless you've got a better one to add. -Hit bull, win steak^(Moo!) 21:31, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Can we crop that photo-ruiner on the right out of the photo? Is that not allowed? 98.111.190.45 (talk) 04:59, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

• Can we change photos? Fedoras were his trademark (as can be noted on the gravestone and statue) but we don't actually have a real photo of him wearing said hat. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.17.37.157 (talk) 04:22, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Landry did not invent the 4-3 defense

The article makes a major historical and factual mistake when it says that Landry invented the 4-3 defense. This is a widespread myth that took root around the time of Landry's death in 2000. I am posting this here, before editing the article, so that readers won't be shocked at the dispelling of this myth.

The truth is that the 4-3 was invented in 1950 by several coaches, most notably Steve Owen, who was the head coach of the NY Giants at the time. In 1950 Landry was just a 26-year old defensive back, and was not an assistant coach. Landry became an assistant coach a few years later, and refined 4-3 coverage schemes, but he didn't invent the defense. The connection of Sam Huff to the invention of the 4-3 is also not correct. He entered the NFL in 1956, long after the 4-3 was invented.

My main source for this information is a comprehensive history of the NFL called "The Game", copywritten 1964, by Tex Maule. A secondary source is an on-line bio of Steve Owen at www.hickocksports.com/biograph/owensteve.shtml.

In a nutshell, this is what happened. When the Cleveland Browns entered the NFL in 1950, they played their opener against the defending world champion Eagles, who used a 5-2 defense with a middle guard (MG) instead of a middle linebacker. Paul Brown, the Browns' coach, split out his offensive linemen and then began trapping the MG, leaving big holes for runners up the middle. This forced teams to move the MG back, turning him into a middle linebacker. This was an immediate change, made by several teams in 1950. That turned the 5-2 into a 4-3.

A second common defense at the time was one used by the Giants, which was a 6-1-4. It had a middle linebacker, but no outside LB's. Against the Browns' spread formation (unusual because it used both a flanker and a split end), Steve Owen moved his defensive ends off the line of scrimmage, turning them into outside linebackers. This made the defense a 4-3. Owen also used an early zone coverage, and his defense was called the "umbrella". Using it, the Giants were the only team that was able to beat the Browns in 1950. So the 4-3 was achieved by two separate paths, both in 1950, and before Landry was even an assistant coach.

For those who don't know, the author of "The Game", Tex Maule, was for many years the senior football writer for Sports Illustrated. When I came of age in the early 60's, the story of how Paul Brown's offense forced both the 5-2 and the 6-1 to morph into the 4-3 in 1950 was common knowledge to those who cared about the x's and o's of pro football. At that time the 4-3 was the universal defense in the NFL, so good fans shared the story of how that came to be. In that book Maule spends some time discussing how respected Landry was as the Giants' defensive coach, and as a young head coach of the Cowboys (which Landry was in 1964), without any mention of Landry being connected to the birth of the 4-3. If Landry was the inventor of the 4-3, this would have been mentioned in a book by that author at that time. Instead, he spent several pages talking about the two routes taken to the 4-3 in 1950 to deal with the Browns' offense, with no mention of Landry in that role.

User: KAC —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.126.38.23 (talk) 20:34, 27 January 2007 (UTC).

The assertions here mix some real events, such as the first game against the Philadelphia Eagles by the Cleveland Browns, and the response by the New York Giants, with events that happened much later. Teams did not immediately convert from the 5-2 to the 4-3 in 1950. Far be it from that. Cleveland was playing a 5-3-3 in the 1950 Championship game. Paul Brown, in his autobiography, explicitly refers to errors in this "three man backfield" that was a central issue in the defensive play of the 1951 NFL championship. Further, rather then eliminating the 5-2 Eagle from use, use of the 5-2 became more and more common as the early 1950s proceeded. From 1950 through 1955, the dominant NFL defenses were five man lines.

By 1954, teams begin to experiment with pulling back the middle guard, and then in 1956, Tom Landry is credited with establishing the first use of the 4-3 as a base defense. It's because he made it what the Giants played every day and then won the 1956 Championship that establishes his claim. That others claim it can be stated without any prejudice, either.

The account I'm giving here mixes my personal observation of video of the 1950 through 1956 NFL championships, with notes from Total Football II by Bob Carroll et al., Paul Zimmermans New Thinking Man's Guide to Pro Football, Steve Owens 1952 text My Kind of Football, and the recently published Y.A. Tittle autobiography. Other questions can be answered in the article on the 5-2 defense, which was rewritten based on books such as the ones I've mentioned. Dwmyers (talk) 00:13, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Photo Caption

caption says Landry in 2007. he died in 2000. is that his ghost? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.29.216.190 (talk) 12:25, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Who's the guy next to him? And what's wrong with him? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.247.244.242 (talk) 18:10, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

• The man to the right of Landry is named Reggie Bibbs, and he is afflicted with neurofibromatosis. -Hit bull, win steak^(Moo!) 21:37, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Education

Why would Landry return to UH to complete a second Bachelor's degree? If he received a Bachelor's in IE in 1949 from UT why would he then proceed to repeat this level of education at a lessor university in 1952? This was probably a Master's degree he received from UH in 1952, not a second Bachelor's. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.60.140.234 (talk) 17:10, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Representative picture

Shouldn't there be a picture that correctly represents Landry in his famous attire on the football field? One needs to be found that can be reproduced!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.118.9.2 (talk) 15:52, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Dismissal from Cowboys

Landry's dismissal is covered in the section 'Beyond the NFL'. Clearly this happened during his coaching career, and should be covered in that section of the article. However, to help with the real story behind Tom Landry, he was actually fired by Jerry Jones for stealing money from the team —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.22.255.57 (talk) 01:23, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Hall of State

The Hall of State has recently had most of their stuff taken off display and have devoted a large portion of it to remembering Tom Landry. Should this be mentioned in this article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.94.200.159 (talk) 00:25, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Head Coaching Record

The percentage column in the Head Coaching Record is incorrect in seasons where he posted one or more ties. It looks like the ties were excluded, rather than counting as half a win (see the article on Winning Percentage, which describes the correct formula). For example, in 1960 the article shows a record of 0-11-1 with a winning percentage of .000. The percentage should be .042 (0.5/12 rather than 0/11). Same in 1961, where a record of 4-9-1 is a winning percentage of .321, not .308 (4.5/14 rather than 4/13). MSchell (talk) 19:27, 30 May 2013 (UTC) MSchell

Under the "Popular Culture" section there exists a glaring omission.

Tom's appearance in an American Express "don't leave home without it" TV commercial.

He is dressed in full western-style and rides a horse up to a saloon, but claims most folks don't recognize him in a cowboy hat....

Then he finds himself surrounded, at the bar, by "Redskins", as in the Washington DC/NFL version.

If I knew how to edit Wikipedia, I'd add it myself. I'm hoping some kind soul will make the addition in memory of Tom. It's quite funny.

Just Google "Tom Landry Redskins Commercial" and you'll get the YouTube. 30 seconds runtime. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.52.103.52 (talk) 03:21, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

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In Popular culture revert

A one-time, numbered editor left WP:POV detritis about Peter Gent's portrayal of Landry in North Dallas Forty. It's been reverted. Expressing my own opinion here, Gent's characterization is much more subtle than 'petty tyrant.' Tapered (talk) 00:21, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Ice Bowl

How can you have a summary of Tom Landry's career without mentioning the disappointing down-to-the-wire NFL Championship game endings in Dallas in 1966 and in Green Bay in the Ice Bowl in 1967? 71.183.144.231 (talk) 01:46, 14 February 2022 (UTC)