Talk:Tokyo Sexwale

Pronunciation

Removed the misleading information that Sexwale's surname is pronounced "Seghwahle". 82.108.5.59 12:59, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

How is it pronounced then? /segwɑle/? /sexwɑle/? /seǁwɑle/? --Krsont 11:41, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I think /sexwɑle/. Definitely neither of the others. --User:Taejo|대조 15:09, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

/seǁ͡kwɑle/, I believe. It's an unvoiced lateral alveolar click. Don't-stop-the-music 15:40, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

No clicks followed by /w/. "Seghwahle" was correct, if you understand it to be an Afrikaans "gh". BTW, Well's blog is wrong on the Venda: Venda has tone, not stress, and the vowels and /l/ may be different as well. Best not to give the Venda unless we can confirm it. — kwami (talk) 14:15, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Well the vowels and /l/ match Venda language#Writing system, FWIW. The current "(Venda; approx. /sɛˈxwɑːleɪ/)" is misleading: I presume "approx" is meant to mean "approximate anglicisation". IMO, if you dispute Wells' original Venda, then you can't in good conscience cite the anglicisation he derives from it; it's just a camouflaged OR. jnestorius^(talk)

Yes, that's an anglicization, which is why it's formatted as English and links to English. No, Wells is a RS for English pronunciation. He's not for Venda, as is obvious from the post. He can figure out the Venda well enough for an English approximation, but not well enough for Venda, as is again obvious from the pos. (1) is the l [l] or [ɭ]? (2) are the es [e] or [ɛ]? (3) is the a [a], [aː], [ɔ], or [ɔː]? (4) is there a high tone, and where is it? (5) what is the spreading of that tone? Until we can answer those questions, we can't provide a Venda pronunciation. — kwami (talk) 16:22, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

In "(Venda; approx. /sɛˈxwɑːleɪ/)", the {{IPA-en}} is hidden unless you actually hover over the transcription. The word "Venda" OTOH is obvious, and a reader would be justified in assuming the transcription was Venda. I suggest changing to something like "(Venda; anglicized approximation /sɛˈxwɑːleɪ/)". jnestorius^(talk) 19:00, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

That works. — kwami (talk) 19:16, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Guerrilla

Sexwale grew up amid the turmoil of the black township's upheaval; he was eight when he heard the explosions at a nearby post office of the first bombs in the African National Congress's guerrilla campaign.

What the ANC was involved in qualifies hardly as "guerrilla campaign". While guerrillas would attack a stronger enemy with hit and run tactics. They still would respect normal rules of warfare like wearing combat dress and carrying weapons openly. Planting bombs in shopping centers or landmines on farm roads hardly qualifies as working within the norms of warfare. I think terrorism is the more adequate word for it. --196.2.105.52 13:23, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

It is widely accepted that the ANC operated withing the sabotage realms of terrorism. It was their vision to draw as much attention by crippling government services while causing the least possible human loss of life. I don't think one can get a reliable source which states that the campaigns was guerilla warfare, and if you can, we should keep with the conventional perspective which was that this was peaceful sabotage, which it probably was. — Adriaan (T★C) 08:45, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Right, but they also attacked "soft" targets like burger bars and shopping centres, particularly towards the end of the conflict. Although the word "terrorist" has come to imply comparison with Al Quida, who are infinitely more vicious.

WP:TERRORISM tells us to avoid the apellation except in direct quotes. For example the IRA is described as "a terrorist organisation by the USA, the EU..." et cetera. The IRA article does not say "the IRA were terrorists" without citation.

I have no doubt there are many sources which argue the toss. BillMasen (talk) 12:14, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Good, by saying that some entity regards the ANC as a terrorist organization would be 100% acceptable, as long as it is a noteworthy entity which says this. However, it would be difficult to loosely classify the ANC as a terrorist organization (and its members thus as terrorists) because at no point in history was it their policy to terrorize and any such act would have been in the capacity of the acting individuals. — Adriaan (T★C) 16:35, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

No-one said anything about policy. For an armed anti-government group, "policy" is largely a matter of public relations, and bears little on the actions of its members. It probably wasn't "policy" for US soldiers to beat up inmates at Abu Ghraib, but that doesn't mean that the US Army isn't to blame as an organisation. Likewise, necklacing, blowing up burger bars and torturing dissidents... all of these things stain the memory of the ANC, even though they were certainly on the side of right. BillMasen (talk) 12:31, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

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