Talk:Timothy Good

POV

Page is edited from the POV that UFOs are a verified phenomenon.E.M.Gregory (talk) 18:42, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

Given that Good's book titles are all fringe and conspiracy theories, the {{Fringe_theories}} template would be more accurate. - LuckyLouie (talk) 16:56, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

There is very little content in this article bar bland statements or quotes from others on Good. I can't see the POV on this. I don't think the article makes a claim that UFOs exist (if it does, that should be deleted), but the subject/topic of UFOs clearly does exist (per Unidentified flying object)? Thus removing the tag. Britishfinance (talk) 14:17, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

I agree with editor Britishfinance, template use premature, especially neutrality dispute. Maybe later depending on any new content. Seems to be an attempt to sway the deletion discussion. 5Q5 (talk) 14:33, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

These are always problem articles that often need "pruning", and I have sympathy with EMG on this; however, on current condition, the tags are not needed. Britishfinance (talk) 14:50, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

"Alien Bases Revealed!" - BBC

The source being represented as the BBC is actually BBC WM, a local West Midlands radio station [1]. The headline of the story is "Alien Bases Revealed!" (note the cartoon aliens in the headline) Reasonable editors agree this is a tongue-in-cheek, WP:SENSATIONAL treatment of the subject. I see no editor arguing that WP must report a BBC announcement of alien bases being uncovered. So I do not understand why we are treating this same story as reliable for the assertion that "Timothy Good is considered one of the world's leading experts on the UFO phenomenon". tl;dr - it's a non-serious junk story, and we shouldn't be citing anything to it. - LuckyLouie (talk) 18:13, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

This was discussed at AfD where the inclusion of "Tim's latest book 'Need to Know: UFOs, The Military, and Intelligence' published Sidgwick and Jackson is available now in all good bookstores." at the bottom of the BBC article indicated its lack of oversight. I removed it, only for User:Britishfinance to come along late in the AfD discussion and add it back. -Lopifalko (talk) 18:19, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Yes, thanks for the reminder (removed). —PaleoNeonate – 21:16, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

In 1987 it was reported in The Observer that he was "Britain's leading UFO researcher". Given that we’ve found more than a few statements taken out of context from sources indulging in frivolous and sensational coverage, can the editor who added this cite provide a non-paywall link to the text of the article? Thanks, -LuckyLouie (talk) 23:00, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

I don't have a non-paywalled link. Also paywalled at the same site, from the Yuma Sun, is this: "The document, which The London Observer obtained from Timothy Good, Britain's leading UFO researcher, purports to be a briefing paper fo..." -Lopifalko (talk) 07:56, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

Googling "leading UFO researcher" finds many such superlatives: Tony Dodd ("Britain's Leading UFO Detective") Nick Pope ("Leading UFO expert"), Tom DeLonge ("Top UFO Expert"), Stephen Greer ("Leading UFO Researcher"), Scott C. Waring ("Top UFO researcher"), Stanton Freidman ("Most Famous UFO Expert")...etc. The typically frivolous nature of UFO stories has news and media outlets uncritically reporting such titles as fact. So I suppose WP has to go along with this sham. - LuckyLouie (talk) 17:19, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

More mainstream sources establishing notability

• "Watch the Skies"
  

April 12, 2006 by Brett Birks
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blackcountry/content/articles/2006/04/12/ufo_feature.shtml
One such speaker was famed author Timothy Good, universally acknowledged as the UK's leading expert on the UFO phenomenon, who attended UFORM's 10th anniversary seminar.

• "Mysterious Lincolnshire Triangle reveals UFO hotspot"

June 18, 2009
https://www.louthleader.co.uk/news/mysterious-lincolnshire-triangle-reveals-ufo-hotspot-1-1014279
Since we started receiving reports of strange lights sighted in the skies last summer, we have been in contact with Nick Pope, leading UFO author Timothy Good, and Robert Rosamond, chairman of the British UFO Research Association (BUFORA).

• "Experts descend on Holmfirth for UFO Truth Magazine’s debut conference"
  

November 13, 2013
https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/experts-descend-holmfirth-ufo-truth-6298526
UFO Truth Magazine holds its debut meet-up at The Old Bridge Hotel on Saturday with a talk from the UK’s number one UFO authority, Timothy Good.

• "Lincolnshire’s Top 8 terrifying and bizarre paranormal cases"
  

October 10, 2017 by Gemma Gadd
https://www.bostonstandard.co.uk/news/offbeat/lincolnshire-s-top-8-terrifying-and-bizarre-paranormal-cases-1-8190903
Leading UFO author Timothy Good also told us he believed there may have been 'an element of hostility' involved in the turbine's destruction.

I list these, but please don't anyone label me a supporter of Good's views, of which I am not totally familiar. My interest is in providing evidence found in non-fringe, mainstream sources that establish an author's notability, something I might do for any author. 5Q5|^✉ 14:36, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

It was already established that he is notable. Otherwise the article would be deleted. --Hob Gadling (talk) 14:20, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

Works

@5Q5: Thanks for reworking the edit. I agree that best selling works merit mention, possibly some others too. Although I wasn't the one who removed them, the article seemed to contravene WP:NOTCV before. —PaleoNeonate – 18:08, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

I might add that the issue is not "censorship" of "fringe subtitles" "that some editors may not like". It's WP:UNDUE listings of non-notable works. If a work is notable, no problem. - LuckyLouie (talk) 19:15, 19 June 2019 (UTC)