Talk:Timeline of the Russian invasion of Ukraine (1 April 2024 – 31 July 2024)

Dead links

Hi @John Sauter. In regard to this edit, per WP:LINKROT: "In general, do not delete cited information solely because the URL to the source does not work any longer." See WP:DEADLINK for more info on what can be done. Thanks! – Primium (talk) 02:23, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Proxy

Ukrainian and Russian troops are fighting a proxy war in the Sudan by supporting rival Sudanese factions. There presence there has to do with obtaining Sudanese gold to finance the war in Ukraine. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 (talk) 08:26, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Your reference is just a link to the TV channel's WP article. – Primium (talk) 22:53, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

WP:UNDUE also. This has been happening since last year. Borgenland (talk) 00:05, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

References

European Convention on Human Rights

Ukraine: Disregard false information concerning derogations from the European Convention on Human Rights

The 29 April item should be amended or deleted entirely. Avessa (talk) 09:28, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

And I was wondering why no one else picked up the story. Borgenland (talk) 09:44, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 May 2024

Yall misspelled Zelensky With 2 y's on the last few sentences of the may 1st 2024 part of this article. 216.186.27.156 (talk) 16:16, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: Volodymyr Zelenskyy with two y's is a valid romanisation of his name. In fact, it's the romanisation used by his official documents and also our article on him. Liu1126 (talk) 16:59, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Putin

Vladimir Putin was sworn in for a fifth consecutive term as Russian president and declared that he would soon order military manouvres which included the use of tactical nuclear weapons. Because of this, Paris declared that it would consider sending French troops to Ukraine.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 (talk) 00:27, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

References

Spain

President Zelensky cancelled a planned visit to Spain on account of the current Russian offensives taking place in Ukraine.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 (talk) 01:36, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

References

The King of Spain is currently visiting Spanish military personnel deployed in the Baltic States where they are currently taking part in a NATO-related exercise."195.244.210.117 (talk) 06:17, 24 June 2024 (UTC)"

Slovakia

There was an assassination attempt on the Prime Minister of Slovakia. There had been some controversy over his policies with regards to the war in Ukraine. The suspect was immediately arrested and is believed to be a pro-Russian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.244.210.117 (talk) 01:04, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

References

14 May

An entry for the 14 May in the timeline states:-

• "French Minister of the Armed Forces Sebastien Lecomu announced another batch of Aster surface-to-air missiles for the Franco-Italian air defenses defending Kyiv".

Does this mean that Kyiv is being defended by NATO personnel?

Please remember to sign your talk page comments by adding "~~~~" at the end. Thanks.– Primium (talk) 17:16, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Probably referring to the materials. Borgenland (talk) 17:19, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Paraskoviivka

Need to verify which Paraskoviivka was taken on 7 June, since the only thing on wiki gives a different direction. 09:11, 8 June 2024 (UTC) Borgenland (talk) 09:11, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Link fixed in article. Nurg (talk) 11:13, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Cuba

A Russian flotilla arrived in Cuba - an event not seen since the Cold War. It included a nuclear-powered submarine."195.244.210.117 (talk) 06:13, 13 June 2024 (UTC)"

References

Hungary

President Zelenskyy visited Hungary. He met with the Hungarian president."195.244.210.117 (talk) 06:22, 3 July 2024 (UTC)"

References

National Service

In the wake of the continuing war in Ukraine, several NATO countries have re-introduced conscription and several others are seriously considering doing so as well."195.244.197.30 (talk) 07:18, 8 July 2024 (UTC)"

References

NATO

A NATO summit took place in Washington DC, United States to commemorate the 75th anniversary of the organization's creation. President Zelenskyy of Ukraine was also present at this summit."195.244.197.30 (talk) 06:31, 12 July 2024 (UTC)"

References

Split?

Currently July and the heading in the war template speaks of this as spring. Should we split this into the summer? Borgenland (talk) 03:49, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

I wouldn't be opposed to it, but I think we should wait until the end of this month (July 31) and then start from August; splitting off both June and July would make this timeline just the spring, but then it would be unnecessarily short. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 01:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

@Borgenland @Jjmclellan82 this article, now covering four full months of content, is definitely long enough for splitting the August content into a new timeline. Should we do it now or wait a few days so there's more content for the split timeline? Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 13:04, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

I think it can be done. Just need an alternate title for the campaign box. Borgenland (talk) 13:12, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

I'll do it now. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 13:13, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Ivano-Daryivka

@Pietadè Yes, I know that the Russian Ministry of Defense did not themselves claim that their forces had taken Ivano-Daryivka until 23 July, but the ISW source explicitly states that Russian forces captured the village on 17 July, so why not just report it there? Do you think we should be reporting on the capture of the village twice, both when it actually happened and when Russia confirmed it? Thanks. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 17:28, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

About 83 results (0.31 seconds) (Sort by: date)
Ukrainian authorities have not yet commented on Russia’s claims, and independent verification of the claims is difficult due to the ongoing war. ☆☆☆—Pietadè^Talk 17:36, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

And? What's your point? Use your own words please. The geolocated footage showed Russian forces raising their flag on the village on 17 July, thus confirming the capture, as was said in the ISW report. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 17:38, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Here's the source if you can't find it, although it is used on the initial report on the capture under 17 July: [1] - "Geolocated footage published on July 17 shows elements of the Russian 123rd Motorized Rifle Brigade (2nd Luhansk People's Republic Army Corps [LNR AC]) raising a Russian flag in Ivano-Darivka (southeast of Siversk) and indicates that Russian forces have seized the settlement as well as Spirne (east of Ivano-Darivka).[39] Russian forces did not make these advances in the previous 24 hours, and it is likely that Russian forces had previously advanced from Spirne towards Ivano-Darivka instead of making rapid tactical gains in the area." Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 17:40, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

@Pietadè Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 17:47, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

ISW, July 22, 2024: "Ukrainian and Russian sources reported that Russian forces conducted ground attacks east of Siversk near Verkhnokamyanske; southeast of Siversk near Ivano-Darivka, Vyimka and Spirne; and south of Siversk near Rozdolivka and Pereizne on July 22."
My point is: this is a war, and, e.g., "raising a Russian flag" doesn't necessarily mean that the village exists (by now; any more) and is entirely occupied. ☆☆☆—Pietadè^Talk 17:51, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

@Pietadè Raising a Russian flag normally wouldn't mean full occupation in a settlement like, for example Bakhmut, but Ivano-Daryivka has a whopping 23 people, and the ISW wouldn't say the village was fully occupied if the footage didn't confirm it. Removing the Ivano-Daryivka claim from 17 July and leaving the Spirne claim is actually worse, as Spirne has been claimed captured since 30 June by the RMOD, but wasn't actually captured until the days leading up to the 17th. My point is that the ISW's claims of occupation are actually more reliable than those of the RMOD, as the RMOD often claims a village capture weeks ahead of when their forces actually take a settlement or a week or more after it happens, so just saying "Russia claimed xyz" is worse than posting the capture under the date in which the seizure actually took place, as otherwise it can be very misleading.

Also, yes "ground attacks" took place near the village after its seizure, but the key word here is near not in, and the former can mean anything. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 18:00, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

“Better later than sooner” – I've tried to follow this since my first article (Little Green Men) here (on 2014-06-18 20:50); if an article published by Anadolu Agency today states that "Ukrainian authorities have not yet commented on Russia’s claims, and independent verification of the claims is difficult due to the ongoing war", why should it be ignored? ☆☆☆—Pietadè^Talk 18:25, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
Thus my preference in this kind of situations (Indicative↔Subjunctive) tends to be on the latter. ☆☆☆—Pietadè^Talk 18:44, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

It shouldn't be ignored, and I'm not, because "independent verification" is always going to be challenging in war; however, the ISW is not some armchair war analyst, it's the most reputable reporter on the Russo-Ukrainian War, which is why, for example, on the territorial control during the Russo-Ukrainian War article, the only time we report on a village being captured is if the ISW explicitly states it has been seized, not when the RMOD claims it has been captured, which is what happened here. As I said in my previous comment, the ISW's claims of Russian advances are more reliable than those of the RMOD; it also doesn't make sense for, if the ISW reports a capture of a settlement, for I to add it to this page, and then it be moved to a date a week later just because the RMOD forgot to "officially claim" that the village is under their control. Later would be better than sooner if my sourcing for this claim was some pro-Russian telegram channel, but its not, its one of the most reputable reporting agencies on the Russo-Ukrainian War. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 18:36, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Sorry for being late. Normally I have this tendency to bear weight on an official agency, but I do am guilty of bearing weight on the ISW at times and if the initial record says 17 I think everything related to its capture should go on the entry for that day (including the MoD’s announcement) to avoid WP:RECENTISM. I also suggest attributing it for clarity. Borgenland (talk) 00:20, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree, this seems like the best course of action. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 00:22, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 31 July 2024

The first F-16 fighter jets were spotted over Ukraine today. SamRuck (talk) 22:36, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Left guide (talk) 22:44, 31 July 2024 (UTC)