Talk:Thubten Jigme Norbu

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M. Goldstein's Modern History of Tibet PP738 At this time, the Dalai Lama and his key officials heard their first eyewitness account of Chinese Communist rule when the Dalai Lama's elder brother, Taktse Rimpoche (Thubten Norbu), suddenly arrived in Lhasa from Amdo (see Figure 61). As the abbot of Kumbum monastery in Chinese-Communist–controlled Tsinghai, he had lived under Chinese Communist rule for about a year and was dismayed by his experience. He claimed he had been kept under strict watch during this period and had been strongly urged by the Chinese to go to Lhasa to convince his brother to agree to the peaceful liberation of Tibet. The Chinese went so far as to promise him the position of governor of Tibet if he could accomplish this. After for some time refusing to cooperate, he ultimately pretended to agree to the Chinese plan so that he could escape to Lhasa and tell his brother his real views on the Communists.[1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.90.220.185 (talk) 21:10, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

married

Is it usual for a Taktser Rinpoche, abbot, to be married?--Richardson mcphillips (talk) 19:56, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

It's pretty unusual, but not unheard of. The 15th Karmapa and the 10th Panchen Lama were married. Thubten Jigme Norbu rejected his religious role to a greater extent than those men did, however. He was something of a unique position to do so because he combined considerable prestige as the elder brother of the Dalai Lama with the fact that his religious position was traditionally not that important, so there were no vested interests demanding that he stick with it. – Greg Pandatshang (talk) 16:32, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Merger proposal

I propose that Taktser Rinpoche be merged into Thubten Jigme Norbu. Reason: duplicate.--Tiger Chair (talk) 20:10, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

I OPPOSE this unnecessary action.

Simply, the Taktser Rinpoche was different men over 150 or more years that were reincarnated and recognized by the Tibetan buddhist abbots of Kumbum Monastery.

The Taktser Rimpoche is one of the many important historical Tulkus located at Kumbum Monastery in Amdo. One former incarnation of Taktser Rinpoche (previous to Thubten Jigme Norbu) had ten thousand Bactrian camels, because he visited Mongolia had a many followers there who gave them as gifts. The vast majority of the Mongolian people practice Tibetan Buddhism and the buddhist scriptures in Mongolia were historically written in the Tibetan Language. Many Mongolian monks historically studied at Tibetan monasteries such as Sera and Drepung in Lhasa. This connection between Tibet and Mongolia is little known. There is much information from Mongolia that will be added in the future as these Mongolian sources are translated to English, French and other languages. Our current lack of full depth historical knowledge is not a good reason to merge this article. This article does have a robust set of 20 footnotes in a small article. Why would the Wikimedia Foundation support losing the work and time investment by volunteer Wikipedians by this merger? — Preceding unsigned comment added by A ri gi bod (talk • contribs) 17:32, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

I, too, oppose this move. Thubten Jigme Norbu was only one of several Taktser Rinpoche. --Elnon (talk) 06:43, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

@Elnon & @A ri gi bod: we all know that and agree that there is a lineage of Taktser Rinpoche, and that Thubten Jugme Norbu is one of them, this is not the point. The issue is that we currently have two articles with exactly the same content: the current Taktser Rinpoche article is exclusively focusing on Thubten Jigme Norbu. This problem was already brought to attention in 2015, see this discussion between Richardson mcphillips and Greg Pandatshang.

For the lineage, we should either create a Taktser Rinpoche lineage article, or modify the current Taktser Rinpoche following the model of the French / German / Chinese wikipedia page and create an interwiki. But keeping a duplicate article is not an option in my opinion.--Tiger Chair (talk) 10:54, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

There seems to be some distinct material in the Takster Rinpoche article now, so I'm neutral on merging.

As a general Wikipedia style issue, I think we should resist making articles for lineages if we don't have much material on the lineage beyond the most prominent representative. In this case, however, the Taktser Rinpoche article does have four paragraphs (albeit fairly short paragraphs, but that's at least the equivalent of a couple good-sized paragraphs) about the previous incarnation. We might consider moving the Taktser Rinpoche article so as to change it into an article specifically about the previous incarnation.

We might consider looking at how Wikipedia handles articles on noble titles, especially outside of the intensively documented British peerage system. Those titles will have similar issues to these about tülku lineages: at what point does the title itself become notable enough to warrant its own article beyond the articles on specific incumbents? – Greg Pandatshang (talk) 15:05, 26 April 2017 (UTC)