Talk:Three-dimensional electrical capacitance tomography

Requested move 14 May 2024

Three-dimensional electrical capacitance tomography → Electrical capacitance volume tomography – This page was originally titled "Electrical capacitance volume tomography" and was recently moved to a page called "Three-dimensional electrical capacitance tomography". These two terms are not the same. The latter is a broader term as shown in the wikipedia article edit on 5/14/24 in the introduction section. References are given for the distinction between terms. When the page was moved to the new term, it stated that the term ECVT is not widely used. However, in the later 5/14/24 edit of the introduction, citations are given for the term being used in China, Indonesia, and three different research groups in the USA. It is suggested that this page return to "Electrical capacitance volume tomography". A separate page should be made for "Three-dimensional electrical capacitance tomography", if desired, as it is a distinct term that can include stacking of 2D tomographs whereas ECVT does not. Marashdeh (talk) 15:28, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose Contrary to what user Marashdeh says, these two terms mean exactly the same thing in most of modern scientific literature. The term ECVT was artificially created 20 years ago by a group of scientists who prepared patent application, and was just a new name for something previously known. Currently, only a few groups use this term. It is not difficult to find on Google Scholar that this is a definite minority. 3D tomography in all other modalities (such as CT, MRI, etc.) means the same thing as what Marashdeh tries to call "volume tomography". Currently, the vast majority of articles understand three-dimensional capacitive tomography in this obvious way. What Marashdeh tries to call 3D ECT makes no sense at all, because it is nothing more than repeated 2D tomography and no one should calls it 3D in their articles (sometimes the terms 2.5D appear). The fact that the incorrect name ECVT first appeared in a Wikipedia article is not a reason to stick with it forever. Please do not mislead people and do not reverse the recent changes. WolfgangNihil (talk) 14:52, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

User @WolfgangNihil states "these two terms mean exactly the same thing". However, the user ignores the references given by the initial prompt which shows the use of the term 3D-ECT to include stacking of 2D tomograms.

The user also states that ECVT was artificially created. This is a bias statement. It was clearly introduced in the literature as referenced in the original prompt and article edit to distinguish between the stacking of 2D tomograms and direct 3D reconstruction using 3D sensitivity data.

The user mentions that the term 3D-ECT is more widely used than the term ECVT and mentions that a search on google scholar will reveal this. However, when "3D Electrical Capacitance Tomography" is searched on google scholar 574 results are returned, while searching "Electrical Capacitance Volume Tomography" on google scholar returns 985 results. Quotes were included in both searches. This also does not separate the results where 3D ECT is used to mean stacking of 2D tomograms or direct reconstruction.

The user mentions the use of the term 3D tomography in other modalities such as CT and MRI. However, these methods utilize stacking of cross-sectional images together which further strengthens the need to distinguish between 3D-ECT and ECVT. If following the naming conventions of other tomography modalities, 3D-ECT would mean the combining of 2D-tomograms into a 3D image, indicating the need for a new term to refer to the direct reconstruction of 3D images using 3D sensitivity information (which is why ECVT was introduced as it was a departure from conventional 3D image reconstruction). Furthermore, capacitance imaging is a soft field tomography which allows the ECVT method, whereas it would not make sense in hard field tomography modalities such as CT and MRI. Thus, two arguments the user gives are contradictory. The argument to follow other imaging modality naming conventions is contradictory to the claim that no one should call the stacking of tomograms 3D ECT.

Furthermore, this wikipedia page is to discuss the actual publications in the scientific body of literature, not the opinions of individuals about what "should" be happening in the literature. The literature discusses ECVT and it is a well established field that is distinct from 3D-ECT. Marashdeh (talk) 15:10, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose Well, since you are taking up the challenge of a substantive discussion, I will not hesitate to participate in it.

Let's determine what the controversial issues are:

1. What is ECVT?

2. What is 3D ECT?

The term "Electrical Capacitance Volume Tomography" first appears as an article title in 2007 in IEEE Sensors Journal. ( https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/4118165 ). In this article, a distinction is made between ECVT (as a technique in which measurements are made between electrodes located in different rings) and 3D-ECT as a combining of 2D images from several planes. Since then, as you have noticed, there have been 985 articles using this term in this sense. And I agree with that, but you must note that articles on this topic appeared much earlier, before 2007.

In 2003 in Chemical Engineering Science (so 4 years earlier) there was an article that presented exactly the same concept, i.e. using measurements taken between different rings of electrodes and using a three-dimensional sensitivity matrix, and called this technique 3D-ECT.

( https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0009250905000965?via%3Dihub ). In this article, composing multiple 2D slices is called "static 3D imaging".

While in 2006 in Measurement Science and Technology an article appeared which also calls the 3D reconstruction technique with three-dimensional acquisition 3D-ECT, and the 2D image compositing technique was this time called 2.5D (and to quote exactly: "It is not a real 3D reconstruction as it is only a rough approximation") (https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/0957-0233/17/8/009/meta?casa_token=82d4xcWG7NsAAAAA:h_jr0tOQQKI52ozNxL3qbA7tRZ2_RVppVnotEG884Q39ZcchfuOY8N91NLH9S35rMYK2q_n0BChYC5W0BCMdf13gCqqZ1Q)

So when the first article about ECVT appeared in 2007, it was nothing new. It was the same technique that had been known for several years, called 3D-ECT. And imposing a new meaning for 3D-ECT as combining 2D images was also artificial because there were already established names for it at that time.

For the last 20 years, both terms have been used in parallel to describe inter-electrode measurements in various rings. And while scientific groups in groups using the term ECVT tend to call the distinction of this term and call the composition of 2D images 3D-ECT, equally numerous scientific groups using the concept of 3D-ECT, as a rule, did not deny the existence of the term ECVT, understanding its meaning as a synonym of 3D-ECT.

Examples of other early articles using term 3D-ECT in the sense described in this Wiki article (both from 2004):

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1284635

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1325371

Another topic you tried to discredit is the reference to other modalities. While I can agree with you that CT and MRI may not have much in common with ECT, you must admit that this technique is almost identical to electrical imedance tomography (EIT).

There are 5 times more articles about EIT (which has found medical applications more easily) than about ECT. However, both techniques are based on similar assumptions and the method of data acquisition and reconstruction is very similar.

Despite these similarities, the term "electrical impedance volume tomography" does not exist and has never existed. What it would represent by analogy has always been called 3D-EIT. The same is true in the third technique of electrical tomography, i.e. electrical resistive tomography (ERT), there is no term "volume resistive tomography", such tomography is only called "three-dimensional resistive tomography".

Therefore, using this concept in only one of existing methods of electrical tomography is strange and misleading.

Due to the significant use of the term ECVT in scientific publications, we should leave this term on Wikipedia, but if we are serious, we cannot say that it is something other than 3D-ECT and artificially attribute to 3D-ECT tomography the meaning of "combining many 2D images", because this is just the opinion of only part of the electrical tomography community.

Moreover, the title of the article should remain "three-dimensional electrical capacitance tomography (3D-ECT)", because this term in the sense described in the article appeared first (4 years earlier than ECVT). Moreover, the term 3D-ECT is understandable to a wider audience, including those involved in impedance and resistive tomography.

WolfgangNihil (talk) 23:36, 20 May 2024 (UTC)