Talk:Thomas C. Sharp

Shouldn't this be called "The Mormon View of Thomas Sharp"?

First, to be totally honest, some might view the following criticism as tainted by the fact that Thomas Coke Sharp was my great, great, great grandfather. However, I grew up in California, and really knew little more than the average person interested in history about the complex story behind the monumental conflict between Sharp and Joseph Smith. In 1993, I moved to central Illinois and since that time have had the opportunity to collect many books and articles about this subject, as well as to read (on microfilm) all of the issues of the Warsaw Signal that Thomas Sharp edited. My understanding has been formed by what I have discovered through honest research, not any religious prejudice or by way of my own "family ties".

I must object to the over-all content of the "Thomas C. Sharp" article, which suffers from intentional omissions and misrepresentations, factual errors, lack of proper sources (and failure to use the meager sources cited). I found nothing on this "Discussion Page", just the note stating, "This article is part of WikiProject Illinois, a WikiProject related to the U.S. state of Illinois." I certainly am not interested in making "edits" if notes cannot be left stating the reasons for the changes. As it stands the article is of dubious quality at best, even if one is being very generous.

The major contributor, "Sesmith," obviously has faced criticism before, since his User Page starts out with the following disclaimer: "Despite what some WP editors have claimed (apparently an attempt to discredit me or allege I have WP:COI), I do not self-identify as LDS or Mormon."

I have problems with many parts of this article, which is carefully written to portray Thomas Sharp in a negative light and paint his ideas as purely "anti-Mormon" - which he actually, was not - and ignore the written record he left behind in the "Warsaw Signal" as well as the many well-researched books that have been produced, some by Mormons (from their own point-of-view), and others delving into the usually ignored political aspect of the trouble between Sharp and Joseph Smith.

Also, Wikipedia has failed to apply its own standards, allowing statements like, "Sharp also opposed non-Mormons who assisted or were sympathetic to the Latter Day Saints, dubbing them "Jack Mormons"." Firstly, there is no evidence for the claim about "Jack Mormons", except for another ridiculous entry on Wikipedia. Secondly, although Sharp came to strongly oppose the majority of Nauvoo's LDS leaders, he never took a stance against anyone based solely on their religion, as a reading of articles in the Warsaw Signal can support. The quoted paragraph which begins, "War and extermination is inevitable!" is directed at Joseph Smith and his lackeys, and in support of the Mormon editors of the Nauvoo Expositor, whose press had been destroyed at the order of Smith because they had dared to criticize him in print. "Sesmith" later portrays these dissenting Mormons as "anti-Mormon", and I believe this was no mistake.

If you believe I'm being "too sensitive" and nit-picking, please read the description of this incident at the Mormon website,Lightplanet.com: http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/response/general/Publications_EOM.htm

I would consider the above an example of "fair-minded" writing, especially considering its source, because it accurately describes what happened without assigning guilt or coloring facts to satisfy some agenda. If lies, half-truths, and thinly-veiled prejudice are repeated over and over, they BECOME history, but that doesn't make them true.

Finally, as a rather trivial point, your contributor states the following about the strange rendering of the picture of Thomas Sharp: "Sharp died in 1894 and no known photographs exist." Its source was a picture taken shortly before he died (after suffering a stroke) I have that original picture, so now it is "known".

Harold E. Marshall 17:17, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Instead of endlessly bitching about the quality of an article, you might make some efforts to improve it. But then again, it sounds like you have a strong WP:COI problem. All my material came from the sources cited which I clearly placed in a "References" section. There is no need on WP to comment on every single rationale for every single edit on the Discussion page. I also resent the suggestion that I participated in "intentional omissions and misrepresentations, factual errors" etc. based on "religious prejudice" and research that was not honest. Whatever happened to WP:AGF??! If you have a problem with an article, then you need to do more than bitch—you need assume others have done their best and then make edits yourself that are based on other reliable sources, and by that I don't mean your warm and fuzzy feelings for your ancestors. If you don't like the way an article sounds, get your ass in gear and do some editing—that's why WP is called the encyclopedia "anyone can edit"!  :) –SESmith 21:38, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

I would also add that WP articles are intended to discuss people for the reasons they are notable. Apart from his opposition to Smith and the Mormons, Thomas Sharp was a nobody who would not even warrant an article. Hence the focus on these activities—these are the reason he is notable. –SESmith 21:49, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

You state—without really knowing anything at all about me or my WP history—that I have "obviously ... faced criticism before". The only criticism I have encountered is from folks like you that assume that because I edit pages to do with the Latter Day Saint movement I must be a biased Mormon. I put up the notice to stop the cranks like you from accusing me of promoting "my" religion. But I see that you've managed to do that anyway, so perhaps the warning should come down as it appears to have no effect against editors of your ilk. –SESmith 03:59, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Broken or non-functioning link.

When looking to explore the resources used to write this page on Thomas C. Sharp, I found the link; Marvin S. Hill. "Carthage Conspiracy Reconsidered: A Second Look at the Murder of Joseph and Hyrum Smith", Journal of the Illinois State Historical Society, Summer 2004 will only lead to a findarticles.com blank page. If the link is behind a paywall, or is otherwise protected by a user agreement, then that should be noted, if not, the link should be repaired.

Tfs11650 (talk) 21:06, 28 June 2020 (UTC)