Talk:Theophobos

Theophobos

• "Between 816 and 838 Bābak Ḵorrami (d. 838) organized in Azerbaijan an armed resistance that drew on the Mazdakite tradition and sentiments, and spread in Iranian regions (...) According to the Greek sources, the family of Naṣr had belonged to the Iranian aristocracy (Theophanes Continuatus, pp. 111-12; Genesios, p. 58). (...) According to Islamic historiography, the Iranian convert died on the battlefield between 839 and 840." -- Venetis, Evangelos (2005). "Ḵorramis in Byzantium". Encyclopaedia Iranica. New York: Center for Iranian Studies Columbia University.

• "Theodora's brother, Petronas, and the eunuch Theoktistos executed a certain Theophobos, a Persian general in Byzantine service; nonetheless apart from this political murder, (...)" -- Whittow, Mark (1996). The Making of Byzantium, 600-1025. University of California Press. p. 154

• "The two versions of Theophobos' first years recorded by Genesios and the Continuator agree that he was born in Constantinople of a Persian nobleman." -- Codoñerp, Juan Signes. (2016). The Emperor Theophilos and the East, 829–842: Court and Frontier in Byzantium During the Last Phase of Iconoclasm. p. 153

• "THEOPHOBOS. Nasr (in Arabic), the Khurramite general of Persian or Kurdish descent who fled to Byzantine territory in 834 after suffering a defeat at the hands of Mamun the year previous." -- Rosser, John H. (2012). Historical Dictionary of Byzantium. p. 469

• "The first mention of astrology occurs in the legendary story of the rise of Theophobos, a Persian refugee of royal blood (...)" -- Magdalino, Paul.; Mavroudi, Maria. (2006). The Occult Sciences in Byzantium. p. 124

- LouisAragon (talk) 14:35, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Most accurate would be to call him 'Kurd or Persian'. If he was not actually called an 'Iranian' by his contemporaries than that's a pretty bad label to give him. There's at least two medieval authors that call him or his troops Kurdish, Bar Hebraeus and Michael the Syrian. I've seen it asserted that Masudi did too, but I can't find that one.

• Bar Hebraeus: "And he sent [an order] to 'ABU SA'ID to make raids in one direction, and to BASHIR, the Satrap, and the sons of the desert, to do the same in another direction. And whilst BASHIR was raiding, NASIR and the KURDS overtook him and delivered the captives. Then came 'ABU SA'ID, and the ARABS gained the upper hand, and they killed NASIR and many of the KURDAYE..."

• Michael the Syrian: "Bésir s'empara de beaucoup de troupeaux et de gens; il fut rejoint par Naçr, chef des Khourdanayé, qui délivra les captifs romains. Abou Sa'id arriva. En le voyant, Naçr faiblit; Bésir le tua et fit mettre sa tête au bout d'une lance. Quand les Khourdanayé virent que leur chef avait été tué, ils n'envisagèrent plus que la mort: ils descendirent de leurs chevaux, leur coupèrent les nerfs et combattirent à pied jusqu'à ce qu'ils succombasent." Znertu (talk) 10:32, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Kurds weren't an ethnicity back then. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:48, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

• "Most accurate would be to call him 'Kurd or Persian'. (...)

Three WP:RS call him "Persian". One calls him "Iranian". One calls him "Persian or Kurd". We can thus conclude that your opinion to call him "Kurd or Persian" is in fact far from the "most accurate" stance.

• "There's at least two medieval authors that call him or his troops Kurdish, Bar Hebraeus and Michael the Syrian. I've seen it asserted that Masudi did too, but I can't find that one."

So you are basically saying we should disregard the WP:RS, and give WP:UNDUE weight to outdated primary sources? - LouisAragon (talk) 17:15, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

They think that everyone born in Iran is Persian and are called "Persian origin". Then let's write 'Iranian' in everyone's bio! Aamir Khan Lepzerrin (talk) 22:28, 27 February 2024 (UTC)