Talk:The Willo Steakhouse

Surely this is just advertising

This reads just like an advertising brochure. Is this printed on the back of the menus?ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 09:36, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

User:ThoughtIdRetired - I pulled the data off of the sources I found, all three are reliable secondary sources. I don't own a copy of the menu. I ate at The Willo (actually with my retired father!) when I was on vacation a few months ago and thought the place was pretty interesting. I have no association with the Willo what so ever that would make this a conflict of interest aside from having eaten there (that's my meal in the photo). Missvain (talk) 19:24, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Btw, if you think that there is promotional language with this please feel free to edit. As we say WP:SOFIXIT. Missvain (talk) 19:24, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Very difficult to get into this without sounding rude (which is not the intent), but I think the following apply. (1) The whole article sounds promotional in tone, so very difficult to edit this out. (2) There are more than 600,000 restaurants in the United States, of which slightly more than half are fast-food establishments. So there might be 200,000 restaurants that people feel should have a Wikipedia article (or let's assume a lower proportion impress their customers - 100,000 article candidates). This seems to me to be a ridiculous number of articles - hence there has to be a strong notability test. If you look at Michelin starred restaurants (fine dining), there are 28 in the USA that have Wikipedia articles about them (if they are properly put into that category). There are 130 restaurants in the USA that actually have a Michelin star, but only 22% have made it into Wikipedia. Of course, there is more to food than fine dining, so go and look at Billy Bob's Texas. To my mind, this is a notable restaurant, but look at the talk page for this - you will see comments that could apply here. (3) I note that the Willo is only 2 hours or so drive from where you live now (sorry, I used to make a living out of dealing with information - I just can't help it). I wouldn't dream of putting together a Wikipedia article for a restaurant on my "home patch" - and the nearest place I'd go to get a meal appears in Wikipedia as home to the World's Biggest Liar competition - but it's only the competition that gets a Wikipedia article.

So, I reckon that some thinking needs to be done on which restaurants are notable enough to get an article - I've never visited the Willo (though I must have eaten in at least 200 different restaurants across the United States), but I can't see an immediate reason why this one should make it through the notability test.

ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 16:24, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

It does pass our General Notability Guidelines but if you are concerned about it's notability feel free to nominate it for deletion. I have written many Wikipedia articles about restaurants around the country - and this is the first time I've had one be questioned about notability (let's just say I eat out as a hobby :) And living in Wine Country surely doesn't help my habit!). And that's OK. If you are concerned about it's notability I'm fine if you want to take it to deletion for examination. And if not, I encourage people to improve wiki rather than not :) Missvain (talk) 18:20, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

OK - I think the issue is whether Wikipedia "wants" to have thousands of articles about restaurants. One of my interests is ships, and it would be ridiculous to have an article about every ship ever built (and you can find multiple sources for most of them). I think there has to be something extra to justify inclusion - for both my subject of interest and yours. I don't know if I am alone in this view, but I think the WikiProject Food and Drink should look at notability criteria for restaurants. Not sure how to raise this with that forum though. I'll step away from this issue now, because I've had my say on it. Thanks for your time on this.ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 21:32, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Yup, this could have been written by a pitchman for the restaurant. The Dissident Aggressor 00:05, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

I've removed a bunch of the cruft. The reception section needs to be balanced out. I'll let someone else have a crack at that. The Dissident Aggressor 00:13, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Oh what a coincidence after the Israel article ;-) But thanks for improving! Missvain (talk) 04:49, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

p.s. ya'll might want to take a look at other restaurant articles like The French Laundry. At least my article was fully cited with reliable secondary sources. I'm actually sad about having my article torn up like this...but whatever :-/ Missvain (talk) 04:53, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Please don't say "WP:SOFIXIT" if you don't mean it. Also, please see WP:OWN. It's not your article. The Dissident Aggressor 23:59, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

I've restored the {{advert}} tag on the reception section - consensus is clear that this article was written as adverty - and that section remains to be cleaned up. Whether it's sourced or not is immaterial. Please don't remove it without consensus. The Dissident Aggressor 14:13, 31 July 2014 (UTC)