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Talk:The Trump Organization/Archives/2019

< Talk:The Trump Organization
Latest comment: 5 years ago by Roxy the dog in topic Trump Organization

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Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Trump Org Revenue off by an order of magnitude (Should be $655m not $9.5b) according to Presidential Financial Disclosures

Latest comment: 5 years ago4 comments3 people in discussion

The sidebar currently quotes an inaccurate figure from a Forbes article that turned out to be a particularly bold lie. When his financial disclosures were released (which is far better data than Trump's personal claim), Crain's New York Business analyzed them and found the evidence-based revenue figures of $698 million in 2016 and $655 million in 2017.

"The Trump Organization's revenue fell last year by somewhere between $45 million and $90 million, a Crain's analysis of the president's financial disclosures found. In 2016 the company's revenue was roughly $700 million. Before becoming president, Trump claimed that his businesses generated $9.5 billion."

This is now the figure and analysis cited by the premiere US outlets, including the Washington Post and WNYC/ProPublica. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slakmehl (talk • contribs) 02:29, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

The $9.5B claimed were assets, not revenue. They were still over-inflated though, as Forbes estimates them to $3.1B. — JFG talk 04:18, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
I've made an edit which reflects this better. UpdateNerd (talk) 06:22, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
Thanks. I have further edited to remove the assertion that Trump claimed $9.5 billion of revenue. What he claimed was over $10B in assets; see for example this July 2015 source, where he also claimed $362 million in revenue.[1] — JFG talk 14:04, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Listing of 22,450 employees on sidebar is implausible, should be removed

Latest comment: 5 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

The claim of 22,450 employees does not currently have a source in the Wiki article, but appears to come from the same analysis which generated the wildly inaccurate $9.5 billion (off by 13X) revenue estimate from Privco:

https://money.cnn.com/2016/12/15/investing/trump-organization-48th-largest-private-company/

22,450 employees is not really plausible for a hotel/resort company with only $655m in revenue. As Ilya Maritz at WNYC notes, that places Trump Org at revenue figures equivalent to KIND Bar, which has around 500 employees. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slakmehl (talk • contribs) 15:16, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Publicly Traded Comparison Case: InterContinental Hotel Group (IHG)

We can also look at a public company (which has to publicize this data) in the same industry that verifiably does have this many employees: Intercontinental Hotels Group (IHG) 

- IHG has 35,000 employees
- 19,000 IHG employees are on LinkedIn, vs. combined 618 Trump Org and Trump Hotels employees => Implies ~1100 Trump Org Employees
- IHG has $4.3 billion in revenue, Trump Org has $655 million => Implies ~5000 Trump Org employees
- IHG has 2,500 Salary data points on GlassDoor, Trump Org and Trump Hotels have 146 combined. => Implies 2000 Trump Org Employees

No matter how you slice it, Trump Org appears to have somewhere between 1000 and 5000 employees.

Since there is no reliable source for this figure, and the current figure is seriously improbable, it should be removed from the sidebar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slakmehl (talk • contribs) 15:16, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

$655 million for 22,450 employees yields a yearly revenue of $30,000 per employee. That's a low salary figure for the USA, but it's not implausible if many employees have minimum-wage jobs or work part-time. We would need to find out the Full-time equivalent (FTE) headcount, and the distribution of employee roles. Another explanation may be that the 22,450 figure improperly includes employees of hotels that Trump does not own, which is a large slice of their business. They get the licensing revenue and they have few or no employees of their own in the deal. Whichever way, I agree that more sourcing is needed; we can't just rely on self-published figures. — JFG talk 23:24, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
This is an interesting point - but even if you include all his licensed properties, everything he could conceivably claim to "operate" (including hotels, residential bldgs, commercial bldgs, golf courses and his winery), it's less than 50 properties. Against the IHG comparison case, even counting each course and the winery as several hotels, it's only 1%-2% of their 5,600 properties. Anyway, thanks for the edit.

Trump Organization

Latest comment: 5 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

Information about valuation disputes should be listed under the controversy tab.

Valuation disputes has the exact same information and source (Forbes) information that is noted under Trump Organization. PatriotAmerica2019 (talk) 17:04, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

What is a controversy tab? -Roxy, the dog. wooF 17:06, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Tab is euphemism people use for a drop-down list. A drop-down list (abbreviated drop-down; also known as a drop-down menu, drop menu, pull-down list, picklist) is a graphical control element, similar to a list box, that allows the user to choose one value from a list. When a drop-down list is inactive, it displays a single value. When activated, it displays (drops down) a list of values, from which the user may select one. When the user selects a new value, the control reverts to its inactive state, displaying the selected value. It is often used in the design of graphical user interfaces, including web design. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drop-down_list

Definition of controversy 1 : a discussion marked especially by the expression of opposing views : DISPUTE https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/controversy

Having two separate drop-downs that fall under a single definition seems a bit monotonous. Valuation Dispute drop-down versus Controversy drop-down. Why separate them?

A controversy is a dispute or argument in which people express strong opposing views. https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/controversy

Also: The information listed under the “valuation disputes” drop-down is already listed above in the main description. Monotonous.

I cannot see any drop down lists in this article. -Roxy, the dog. wooF 10:11, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
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