Talk:The Sun Has Got His Hat On

David Lowe, May 2014

Lowe was not fired/sacked over this incident, despite attempts by some of the newspapers to give this impression, eg the Mail.[1] He offered his resignation, which was accepted by his bosses, after they turned down his request to apologise on air. Nor was he asked to resign by his bosses. The BBC subsequently admitted that "We accept that the conversation with David about the mistake could have been handled better."[2] Anyway, never let the facts get in the way of a good story. See also WP:BLPSOURCES.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 12:57, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Sources say he was asked to resign. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:46, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

The Torquay Herald Express has probably the most detailed and accurate coverage of this story. In his own blog account, Lowe says that he offered to apologise on air or fall on his sword (ie resign), and the BBC chose the latter, although it subsequently changed its mind.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:33, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Meaning of n-word

Re this edit The n-word has shifted in meaning over the years. It is similar to the shift in the meaning of the word "gay". "Flintstones, Meet the Flintstones, We'll have a gay old time" (from the 1960s) is not intended to imply that Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble are homosexuals. Nor is the Gay Gordons (dance) intended to make a potentially libellous assertion about the Gordon Highlanders. Copies of Agatha Christie's book with the n-word were sold well into the 1970s.[3]--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:09, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

It's perfectly sufficient to simply say the term was socially acceptable in the 1930's - if there's a citation to that effect. Giving other examples, like the book, is just overkill. Obscurasky (talk) 21:43, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

The Guardian source says that it was socially acceptable in the 1930s. This source points out that although black people considered it offensive long before then, it was in the second half of the twentieth century that the meaning came to be regarded generally as offensive.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 02:57, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Amused by the name of the composer in the light of these comments! 88.80.190.220 (talk) 08:40, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Original use

Can someone please correct or explain the original use of this song? Looking back at edits over the past days - it was first NOT credited to the Me And My Girl show but was added to the Stephen Fry version. I know it from Junior Choice on the BBC in the seventies when it was played almost every week. That was the negroes version which offended nobody.88.80.190.220 (talk) 08:38, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

It was removed in this edit because it was an important claim that had been unsourced for a long time. The song was recorded in 1932, and the show Me and My Girl was premiered in London in 1937. The song appears at the start of Act 2 of the 1980s version rewritten by Stephen Fry, but I was reluctant to say that it was not in the 1937 version without a proper source. Help needed here to find a reliable source. Apparently Leaning on a Lamp-post was not used in the 1937 show either.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 10:30, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

• The 1980s revival version is on YouTube here, regrettably a copyvio which cannot be included as an external link in the article. It is from Channel Four News and is introduced by Peter Sissons. This is the version which includes the line "He's been roasting peanuts".--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 12:26, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Still no wiser. By the way what is PEACOCK and why did you remove my edit to the article? 88.80.190.220 (talk) 08:02, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Welcome back. This edit contains a misleading and unsourced impression, with the wording "The song was not in the original version of the show, but was added for the 1984 revival after Jonathan King had covered it with great success in 1971." There is an implied post hoc ergo propter hoc statement here. Also, "with great success" is WP:PEACOCK, because it does not say who said this or go into any detail.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 08:41, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Just seems to me that listeners of a certain age like myself heard the negroes version many times on the BBC. There must be a way to confirm this? If true it is probably the explanation for Lowe's mistake. Although playing the original he subconsciously considered it acceptable for BBC transmission. 88.80.190.220 (talk) 09:49, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

After the Sachsgate incident, the BBC tightened its rules. Lowe was a BBC freelancer who prerecorded his show and used the Ambrose copy from his own private collection. He was not required to have the show vetted before transmission, and has stressed that he did not know that the offensive word was in the Ambrose version. As for the 1971 Nemo version, the most interesting thing is that by then someone had spotted that it would not be a good idea to use the original 1932 lyrics.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 11:11, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

EXACTLY. By changing one word it gave the song 50 more years of life. I bet if you stop anyone in the street and say the title they sing Hip Hip Hooray. More known than all the rest of Lowe's show added together because the BBC and others have played it non stop since 1971. I'm sure I've heard it on TV commercials. And I bet that was why Me And My Girl was revived in the 1980s and why they added the song. 88.80.190.220 (talk) 06:38, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on The Sun Has Got His Hat On. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/media/news/a402163/itv-calendar-news-escapes-racist-song-gaffe-rebuke.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 13:55, 4 July 2016 (UTC)