Talk:The Hobbit (1977 film)/Archive 1

Beards

You also have to remember that Cirdan had a beard and it was unusual for Elves to have beards before the 3rd cycle of their lives. Whatever the 3rd cycle may be, Tolkien never described the cycles of the Elves lives.

~Bob DeBello~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.245.32.11 (talk) 16:39, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Deleted: "Elrond has a beard despite the book outright saying that Elves do not have beards." This is not entirely true. -UrbaneLegend 19:59, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Changes to the story

Many of the changes mentioned are unclearly stated, making it hard to tell which event happens in the film and which in the book. —pfahlstrom 03:16, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Am I the only one that remembers that "The Hobbit" novel was made explicitly for children? It was the "Lord of The Rings" that was written for young adults. Tolkien even mentions that when he was writing for LOTR, it started off child-like, as with "The Hobbit", but grew darker and more adult. Yet the article makes it seem like Tolkien had intended "The Hobbit" for adults, and that the cartoon had broken from that.76.170.109.79 (talk) 06:10, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

100% correct, this article is misrepresenting the fact The Hobbit is a childrens book. Please be bold and make the changes! Or I will when I get a the chance. --Davémon (talk) 07:58, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I believe this entire section is unnecessary. The editor User:Kjaer made this remark when restoring the section: "there is little sense in the article without this. true information harms no one" I disagree. There is plenty of sense in the article without that section. Namely, documenting the existence of the film, the people involved in its creation, and the level of its success. And true information can be harmful; it would incredibly detrimental to the readability of the article were I to add a section that, say, listed the exact hexadecimal color code of the backgrounds in every scene, or the names from left to right of every character in every scene. Too much information clogs the article. However, maybe the section can be pared down to a smaller one. Maybe a paragraph or two about the types of changes made for the sake of pacing and narrative, rather than listing every change wholesale.Dinferno (talk) 01:54, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

I do understand a desire to keep the article readable. But this is one section, and readers have the ability to scroll past what they do not find interesting. It is not up to us to judge that for them. Your suggestion that a list of changes between the source book and the adapted work is like describing the hexadecimal code for the background color is a bit of humorous hyperbole, and I thank you for the chuckle. But it is relevant, especially to those, like myself, who had seen the video long before they read the book.

I do suggest you make any statements more concise so long as you don't omit facts.

You might also look at the edit history. There was a lot of repetition and OR material that I and other editors have removed.

I do sympathize to some extent. But in so far as the information is true, and specifically deals with 'cannonicity' I oppose simple deletion. Kjaer (talk) 02:06, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome for the chuckle, but I have to tell you I didn't mean them to be humorous at all. I was serious when I wrote those examples, and I firmly believe that the section is a clear example of listcruft. I think it diminishes the article. However, I can see that you are dead-set on retaining the section. I really don't want to get in an edit war over this (and the only reason I came to the article in the first place was link-trawling through LOTR pages after I was curious about Tom Bombadil backstory), so I'll leave it at that. I'll desist. Have a nice day. Dinferno (talk) 02:31, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

The section Changes to the story: (In the film) with the following content is erased:

1. All the Dwarves show up with Gandalf all at once in the film, rather than arriving in groups the day after Gandalf meets Bilbo and puts a mark on his door, and also in the book Fíli and Kíli play crucial roles and they have many lines, while in the film they speak in unison and have only three lines near the beginning and are silent the rest of the film.
2. The company leaves Bilbo's house on ponies, but after that the ponies are not seen until they are lost in crossing the Misty Mountains. In the book, the company rode ponies from Bag End to Rivendell.
3. Bilbo is noticed by the Trolls as he sneaks up to steal some meat rather than being exposed by the Troll's "talking" purse.
4. The Dwarves flee in terror from the Trolls and are picked up one at a time instead of walking blindly into the camp and being ambushed (except for Thorin, who puts up a fight).
5. Gandalf apparently has the power to make the dawn come earlier to dispatch the Trolls, rather than tricking the Trolls by throwing his voice.
6. The Troll cave does not have a locked door.
7. Gandalf gives Thorin Thrór's map of the Lonely Mountain and the key to Smaug's hideout in the troll cave rather than back at Bag End.
8. Elrond has a beard and wears a crown resembling a miniature swirling constellation of stars around his head.
9. Elrond says that the moon-letters will appear when the moon shines behind them. In the book, the letters only appear when a moon of the same shape and season as when they were written shines behind them. The film notably mistakes the runes on the map's upper left (which has a drawing of a hand pointing to the Lonely Mountain and a rune inscription which states "Five feet high the door and three may walk abreast") as the moon-letters which state "Stand by the grey stone when the thrush knocks, and the last light of the setting sun on Durin's Day will shine upon the keyhole", whereas these moon-letters are actually located in the lower middle of the map (the portion of which is shown as written in plain runes in the film) [1].
10. References to Durin's Day have been omitted, thus making the above direction "...And the last light of the setting sun will shine upon the keyhole.".
11. Up in the mountains, there are no stone giants playing games amidst the storm.
12. Gandalf is missing in the cave, rather than sleeping, when the goblins emerge. The Dwarves are not grabbed, but run into the tunnel.
13. The Dwarves do not fight the goblins in the tunnel.
14. Bilbo specifically asked Gollum what he has in his pocket rather than muttering it aloud to himself. Gollum does not even try to guess, instead of demanding three guesses. Only four riddles are posed in the film (there were ten in the book).
15. Bilbo pulls the ring out of his pocket after Gollum says he's looking for his "golden ring, magic ring".
16. Bilbo has no trouble getting out the back door (no goblins to sneak by, tight spots to fit through or tricky terrain).
17. Gandalf seems to know exactly how Bilbo escaped from Gollum in the movie and alludes to his knowledge of the ring by stating that Bilbo's story "has the 'ring' of truth. Yes, it 'rings' true."
18. Rather than meet the Wargs in the forest, the goblins come with them, riding on wolves which do not speak and wielding torches (despite the Wargs' fear of fire in the book).
19. The Great Eagles do not take the company to their eyries, but to the edge of Mirkwood, bypassing Beorn (who does not appear in the film, but is present in very early pre-production sketches, suggesting he was originally intended to be present).
20. The incident at the enchanted river, including Bombur's magical sleep, is omitted.
21. The feasts of the Wood-elves are omitted (yet are referred to when the Wood-elves capture the Dwarves).
22. The Wood-elves are blue-skinned and unlovely, contrary to Tolkien's descriptions of what Elves should look like.
23. Bilbo is shown fighting only a few spiders rather than hundreds.
24. Bilbo's sword, Sting, always glows in the film regardless of whether goblins are nearby or not.
25. Thorin is captured with the other Dwarves by the spiders and then the Wood-elves.
26. There is no stop-over from the journey via barrels from the Wood-elves' castle to Laketown.
27. There is no Master in Laketown; Bard the guardsman runs the city.
28. The company does not make camp at the base of the mountain (They are shown together with Bilbo in front of the Secret Passage, with Thorin sleeping just beside him).
29. Balin does not go with Bilbo into the secret entrance.
30. Bilbo has only one audience with Smaug and the thrush is present. Bilbo orders the thrush to seek Bard to tell him of Smaug's weakness.
31. The Arkenstone and all that goes with it is omitted.
32. Roäc the raven is omitted. In the book, the ravens tell the Dwarves that Smaug is slain and is sent to Dáin to call for assistance. In the film, the Dwarves wait, lost inside the Lonely Mountain, for a week, and it is never explained why Dáin arrives at such an opportune moment.
33. The company discovers the two armies coming when they are on the doorstep, rather than being warned in advance.
34. Bard and the Elvenking only have one parley with Thorin.
35. Bard demands gold because of the fact he killed the dragon. In the book, his reason is a lot more selfless, a good part of the gold was taken from Dale, and he wishes a portion returned to them. He also thinks that Lake-Town should be compensated for the damages it suffered from Smaug, which he finds the Dwarves partly responsible for.
36. Bard is made king of the Men of Lake-town. In the book, he leaves Lake-town to rebuild Dale.
37. In the movie, Bilbo does not give any of his gold to the men of Laketown. In the book, he gave his share of the gold to Laketown.
38. Thorin becomes angry with Bilbo due to what he perceives as cowardice on Bilbo's part (since Bilbo is unwilling to fight in the battle) rather than because Bilbo handed the Arkenstone to Bard and the Elvenking.
39. Thorin and the dwarves plan a suicidal last stand against the Elves and Men in a pitched battle outside the mountain and are pleasantly surprised when Dáin's army arrives. In the book, not only did they know Dáin was coming ahead of time, but their plan was not to battle Bard and the Elves, but attempt to wait them out.
40. Ravenhill is not mentioned.
41. Gandalf appears at the centre of the battlefield as the Battle of Five Armies is about to start. In the book, he appears at the last of the meetings with Thorin, Bard, and the Elvenking.
42. The armies in the Battle of Five Armies are divided differently (Bilbo counts the Goblins and Wargs as one army, the Eagles are counted as a separate army).
43. In the film, the Battle of Five Armies was won when the Eagles appeared. However, in the book, although the Eagles helped win the battle, it was Beorn as a bear who decisively killed the goblin leader Bolg.
44. In the film, the armies remain on the plains to fight. In the book, the elves, dwarves, and men fight from mountainside.
45. In the film, Thorin and his group are fighting throughout the entire battle. In the book, Thorin and company launch an attack from Lonely Mountain during the height of the battle.
46. In the book, only Thorin, Kíli, and Fíli die in battle, leaving ten dwarves still alive. In the film, Thorin, Bombur, and five other unnamed dwarves are killed. (In fact, Dwalin, Gloin, Dori, Nori, Bifur, Bofur and Bombur are all still alive in The Lord of the Rings. (The Fellowship of the Ring: HarperCollins, 1999: 300).
47. Most of the return journey, including winter at Beorn's home, a stop at Rivendell, and digging up gold they buried by the troll camp, is omitted.
48. The auction back at Bag End is omitted.
49. Balin and Gandalf's visit, years later, is omitted.
50. Bilbo's Ring is shown as being displayed in a glass case atop the mantelpiece whereas the book states that Bilbo kept the matter of the Ring a great secret.

Sorry it was erased with the argument WP:OR by the User MarnetteD But, I suppose such argument is false. But his second argument WP:TRIVIA seems to be to 90 % right. I would say that the list should be cleaned up and after this it should be implemented again. with friendly greetings, Soenke --Soenke Rahn (talk) 01:10, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Also, Smaug's name is mispronounced: It's "Smowg", not "Smog". HalfShadow 23:04, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Says who? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.34.98.228 (talk) 11:36, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

Critical reaction

This section, while not misrepresenting fact, e.g., Elrond is indeed portrayed with a halo, amounts an editor's POV rather than the reaction of professional critics. I have removed the remark that gandalf's nose is long. That is simply absurd as a criticism, Tolkien nowhere describes the length of his nose - it is a matter open to interpretive license. Most of the other matters, such as Elrond's halo would be better mentioned in change to the story or be deleted entirely. Likewise, gollum is described with webbed feet in the Hobbit, and it is not specified that he is a hobbit himself until LoTR. It seems that someone is comparing this adaptation to LoTR and to other adaptations. I'd like some comment before I make other changes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kjaer (talk • contribs) 23:04, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

I went ahead and deleted the criticisms of facial features etc. They were unsourced, and over the top (universally panned? really?). Jherad (talk) 02:41, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Sound problems

I have erased the following line seems to be original research: The DVD version of the film is noted for a compromised soundtrack with many missing sound effects cues (goblets clanking & hammer-tinkering noises omitted, spider death screams, along with several lines of dialogue). To date Warner Bros. has not issued a corrected disc or a statement about the problems with the soundtrack. Comparison made with earlier VHS tapes confirms these omissions. with friendly greetings, Soenke --Soenke Rahn (talk) 20:22, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Why erase this? It's significant and there is proof here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDPwE0d5hHw 99.232.82.178 (talk) 04:32, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

it was unsourced and I saw no quote. - By the way, I suppose I have the DVD version. Thanks I will place the information on the German article, also. with friendly greetings, Soenke --Soenke Rahn (talk) 04:40, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Home video

It was also released on Betamax and RCA SelectaVision CED. Bizzybody (talk) 07:18, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Broadcast history

How many times has it been broadcast on TV? I remember seeing it the first time, as far as I know the only time it was broadcast. Bizzybody (talk) 07:19, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Inspired Corp. DVD?

The article says, "IN 2009 Inspired Corp. Released the Hobbit Unedited with Original Sound Effects." However, the only DVD I can find on Amazon is this one, released by Peter Pan Industries, Inc./Parade Video. Customer reviews of this versions indicate that this version is also missing the same sound effects as the Warner version (and contains some alterations to the video, too).

Is there another DVD release of The Hobbit that I'm overlooking?

Cafink (talk) 15:07, 11 December 2013 (UTC)