Talk:The Gap Cycle

Source of names

Some information to complete this article could probably be gathered from www.stephenrdonaldson.com. In particular the "gradual interview", where some quick searching for "Hashi" turned up this:

And throughout the life of the GAP books as I considered and wrote them, names played crucial roles as sources of inspiration and insight. Angus (bullheaded) Thermopyle (famous battle where a few warriors struggled against insurmountable odds). Morn (morning) Hyland (the Highlands of Scotland). Warden Dios (the caretaking, defending, imprisoning god). Godsen Frik (Hagen in my favorite recording of "The Twilight of the Gods" is sung by Gottlob Frik, and Godsen Frik is the "dark and hungry god" Holt Fasner's moral son). Lane Harbinger. Koina Hannish. Hashi Lebwohl. Sorus Chatelaine. Min Donner. Marc Vestabule. Vector Shaheed. The names positively *sing* to me, telling me who these people are, where they come from, what they care about.

(No information about where the name "Hashi Lebwohl" came from, though.)

Given Donaldson's own explanation as to the origin of the names of Angus, Morn, and Nick (he made them up and kept them because they sounded catchy and emotional), I think that their analysis is somewhat superfluous. This is not to say that they don't "sing" in the manner he describes, but I doubt they were synthesized to have the claimed meanings. --Eyrian 19:26, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Totally agree, and I'd go further. I think all the speculation and essay-style stuff in the article is original research and should go. The quote from Donaldson himself is a much better reference. Since the Gap/Ring comparison is about half the article and removing it is quite a large step, before I go ahead, comments are welcome. --Telsa 21:05, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

It seems unfortunate to remove the entire analysis, as it seems to be good stuff. But given the policy against original research, it may need to. The connection to Wagner's Ring is not entirey original, as Donaldson goes on about it at length in my edition of the book. However, many of the connections here seem original, and I cannot find any corroborating sources.--Eyrian 21:23, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

One thing. I'm kinda new to wiki. But is very solid original research allowed? I mean, the stuff about Warden Dios seems pretty dead on, especially the eye part. Except maybe this:

"Also, "Warden" is an obvious and deliberate mis-pronunciation of "Wotan"

Which seems like a possible explanation, a good interpreatation, but "a deliberate and obvious" is way too much. I haven't read everything Donaldson has said in public, but I know that every time I see something about Dios' name, the "Warden" refers to his role rather than his connections to Wotan.Mr Bucket 22:11, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Tags

I have added the npov and unencyclopedic tags to this article due to concerns about the style. It seems unencylopedic in tone and similarly not neutral-point-of-view. There is also a lack of citations, particularly in the contrast section.Michaelbusch 21:31, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Does wikipedia require page by page citation of points? If not, I'll get up a citation for the name stuff when I get my copy of The Real Story back from a friend (he should be done already, but give me till Saturday). Many of the name stuff is backed by Donaldson's own words in the afterward of the first novel.

However, there's a fair amount that's clearly idle speculation because it directly contradicts Donaldson's own explanation of the names. I took the liberty of trimming all that, and the most informal parts of the article as well.--Mr Bucket 21:55, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

---

The "unencyclopedic" tag is for subject matters which are inherently unencyclopedic, not for unencyclopedic articles on a subject which is in fact worthy of an article. Therefore removing tag. AnonMoos 00:57, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

A Source!

For those of you really interested in the relations between The Gap Cycle and The Ring Cycle, there's a nice little source to look at: [1]. Although I personally find the review to be full of poorly made content, praises and criticisms alike, it is a source! And he/she is a fairly entertaining author. Read under the "Pull the Wagons in a Circle" heading for good info on Wagner/Donaldson comparisons.--Mr Bucket 22:16, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Plot

Perhaps the plot should be broken down into sections for each novel (and that information also copied to the individual articals for each novel that I just created) RoyBatty42 23:27, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Articles for Each Novel Created

I just created articles for each book of The Gap Cycle and they are in dire need of plots, images of the cover art and other useful info RoyBatty42 23:27, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm in the process of reading them so I wrote a section on the second book (there was already one for the first book). I'll continue to write plot summaries (assuming the others haven't been done already, I haven't checked). It would be helpful if people interested in this series would look over what I wrote and fix the plot points\grammar\etc. I'm not exactly a writer. --Thaddius (talk) 13:08, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Chaos and Order Cover.gif

Image:Chaos and Order Cover.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 05:11, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Forbidden Knowledge Cover.png

Image:Forbidden Knowledge Cover.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 09:25, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Scripts/Movies in Pre-Production?

Does anyone know if the Gap Cycle's feature rights have been taken up? Twobells (talk) 14:27, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, according to Donaldson's official website a film company called "Fully Loaded Pictures" has purchased and holds the rights. However, he states nothing about the status of the film as he takes no personal involvement in ANY options, the same was true when The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant was optioned. I have searched for info on the production company itself, but there is absolutely nothing... So far, it looks like no progress is being made. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lazarus Abraham (talk • contribs) 08:27, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Scientific Credibility section

It is mentioned that Stephenson uses some 'real science' but uses them incorrectly, then goes on to mention three examples, but doesn't explain how they're used incorrectly... this is all original research anyway, but can someone maybe mention how they're used incorrectly? --Thaddius (talk) 13:15, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Seems like it'd be fair to also mention what 'real science' was used correctly. Excise (talk) 04:10, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

My physics is a bit rusty but (based on our current understanding of the Universe):

• The singularity grenades featured in Chaos and Order would have the same gravitational attraction in black-hole form as they would in grenade form. According to the book "The grenade weighed five hundred kg". You might get some additional effect from the energy used to detonate it, but that would be governed by E = mc^2, so not much
• The ships get compressed near a black hole, whereas (counter-intuitively) they should actually be stretched
• Any transfer of information faster than light should break causality, although this is clearly a deliberate plot device
• At one point he describes a laser traveling more slowly away from a ship that is doing a meaningful fraction of the speed of light. This is contrary to a central tenet of Einstein's theory of Relativity. Several paragraphs describing the effects of a high velocity on a ship and its crew also suggest a total lack of understanding of special relativity

Conversely I like his description of how unimaginatively vast (slower than light) space is, and some of the descriptions around spinning ships for pseudo-gravity and sound during EVA NeilRickards (talk) 14:35, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

• This is covered - the singularity has to be opened in an open energy source or it just fizzles out.
• Don't think it says this. We don't directly see what happens to the ship.
• Fair enough of course many sci-fi stories do this. It wasn't that important a plot point either, and the range chosen for the device is arbitrary. He could have achieved the same effect without it.
• Yes this bit was very odd. The faster they go the less "traction" they get from their engine. However how their engines work is not explained at all either. I chose to read this as, "this is how their engines work" and "they use terms suggesting they are some type of magic rocket because Reasons". (As you approach light speed in RL, you do get more massive. But here they can't get beyond about 0.5C. Just go with it, since it is another important plot point.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.8.150.63 (talk) 06:27, 19 March 2018 (UTC)

Publication Dates

The publication dates were incorrect, so I adjusted them. The original writer seems to have been using the US publication dates, when some of the books were published earlier in the UK.--Werthead (talk) 15:36, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Needs a Lot of Cleanup

This article needs to be almost completely rewritten. The plot section is not even half-finished, and we have a long essay which I'm not entirely sure belongs on Wikipedia. Anyway, I've read part of the series, and when I finish it (knowing me, in a few months), I'll give this article a nice big makeover.122.106.160.244 (talk) 00:17, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Copy?

This article is a copy of http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/The_Gap_Cycle but which came first? Also http://www.search.com/reference/The_Gap_Cycle The more I google the more copies I find Mtpaley (talk) 00:27, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Looking at the absoluteastronomy.com page, this wikipedia article is clearly credited as the source at the bottom. DonVincenzo (talk) 01:27, 8 August 2010 (UTC)