Talk:That '90s Show/Archive 1

That 80's show

Please don't add that the title is a reference to That 80's Show because that was based of That '70s Show as well. That's like saying E Pluribus Wiggum is based on E Pluribus Unum and E Peterbus Unum.--The Dominator (talk) 22:00, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Or that "King Homer" was based on both the original and the remake of King Kong. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 23:30, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Parody

Not only are there references to Nirvana, but also to Bush.Sposato (talk) 01:29, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Guys there's also a couple typos. "perform a new song, calles Shave Me," should be "calleD Shave Me" as well as later one when they spell it "Save Me" instead of Shave. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.86.96.10 (talk) 23:21, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Discontinuity

I'm not sure why it was removed, but there's a discontinuity with Snake, I'm pasting my entry here:

• During the flashback before Bart was born, Snake is seen running away from Chief Wiggum, but in The Seemingly Never-Ending Story - after Bart was born - he was shown to be a gracious, law-abiding professor until Moe stole his gold and he swore revenge on society. JW (talk) 01:34, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
  • This entire episode is one big continuity problem, so something like that is relatively minor. Either way it's OR. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 02:23, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

The entire series is full of continuity problems, and each episode is really only continuous with itself. What happened to Marge's gym? Is Ralph still running for president? How could Homer and Marge have gone to High School together in the 70s, but college in the 90s? How could Homer have been a teenager during the 1969 moon landing, yet be 39 in the present day?

This is preschool stuff, guys. Characters sometimes have birthdays yet nobody gets older. It's called a sliding timescale and I'm surprised this is even an issue.

This isn't DC comics' 52, it's not Futurama, and it's not Constantine. None of this is happening in anything close to real time.

That 90s Show actually fixed a very big problem that existed from the beginning, which was the fact that Homer and Marge couldn't have gotten pregnant right out of high school (as was previously indicated by the series) and have a 10 year old son.

Criticism of George W. Bush

Someone seems to be deleting the indirect criticism of George W. Bush through Homer and Marge's conversation about Bill Clinton. I feel that this need not be deleted. J-Head (talk) 01:39, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Maybe it was deleted, not because it's not true, but because it's extremely totally obvious, and doesn't deserve being pointed out, as if there was anyone who didn't get that? VolatileChemical (talk) 04:16, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

It has been deleted because it is Original Research.--The Dominator (talk) 04:21, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

You'd better delete the entire cultural references section then, as well as the cultural references for ever single Simpsons episode that isn't referenced to some independent source, and while you're at it you should comb the wikientry for every single television episode or movie that has any cultural references that aren't explicitly cited.JW (talk) 05:29, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

There is a difference between original research and an unsourced CR, also note that there are plenty of editors who do wish to delete every single cultural reference section. Wikipedia is not and never claimed to be 100% consistent.--The Dominator (talk) 06:05, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

The difference is a gigantic gray area with two tiny black lines on either side. Unless it's a direct quote or doesn't cite the episode at all, it falls into a big gray area between unsourced reference and original research. When it's a personal judgment if it should go in or not, I think "would a person researching this want to know it?" JW (talk) 08:54, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Exactly, would a person researching this want to know it? Very unlikely, and if they did, Wikipedia is not the place for a random collection of cultural references, do you know how long the section would be if you were to list every reference the episode made? In this episode, every second line could be considered a CR.--The Dominator (talk) 15:13, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Semi-Protect

Semi-Protection 4 ever!!!--The Dominator (talk) 02:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, here we go. Someone else is more appropriate than someone else. Why was my fully referenced comment about the Weird Al/Kurt Cobain joke removed?24.0.204.37 (talk) 02:58, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Because it wasn't properly referenced. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 02:59, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Check the history again, please. I added the reference: [1]24.0.204.37 (talk) 03:01, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Not a proper reference. A reference should say that the joke is a direct parody of something, not point out the similarities. Read WP:V. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 03:03, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

The joke is a parody of Cobain's supposed comment. Homer indicated that even being covered by Weird Al doesn't make him happy. The reference is acceptable for the Smells Like Nirvana article.24.0.204.37 (talk) 03:04, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't really think it's notable anyway.--The Dominator (talk) 03:06, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah because heaven forbid a multi layer joke gets anywhere. You guys aren't even being consistent: the current version off handedly mentions "Marge mentions how their happiness unraveled like Kevin Costner's career." without even pointing out the humorous part of the line; both troubles started with The Postman (film).24.0.204.37 (talk) 03:16, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

This article is still a work in progress, the damn episode didn't even air where I am right now, we're just trying to make it better and you feel free to make constructive suggestions.--The Dominator (talk) 03:23, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

So you haven't seen it, but you're commenting on what's notable. OK. My constructive suggestions are that the Weird Al and The Postman jokes were funny and should be mentioned, as well as the fact that the current article says that "Marge finds Homer doing drugs", which is untrue; she then comments it was insulin, not heroin.24.0.204.37 (talk) 03:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

The joke you mentioned seemed to have brief mention, and simply being "funny" does not make it notable. The cultural references section is a cultural references section, not a random collection of jokes that random users find funny.--The Dominator (talk) 03:36, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not going to comment on the validity of any argument in this, but I do think that people should wait until they've seen the show to edit the page for anything other than language or adherence to wikipolicies. JW (talk) 05:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

That's the thing, I didn't edit, I just stated that I doubt its notability, and when I saw it, it just went over my head and I didn't even notice, so probably not that prominent.--The Dominator (talk) 05:35, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Couch gag

The 'couch gag' "Ceci n'est pas couch gag" (translated - This is not a couch gag) is a direct parody of René Magritte trechery of images.

Homer's Shirt

The striped shirt homer wears when he's in sadgasm appears to be a reference to Kurt Cobain, as he wore a very similar shirt in the video for "Smells Like Teen Spirit"

that is original research and can't be added Ctjf83^talk 04:10, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

The episode made several allusions to the 90's (Could have got along with less), but I think we should add a statement to the CR section, something like, "The episode makes several allusions to the 1990's, including popular music, television and technology" or something along those lines. Any thoughts?--The Dominator (talk) 04:20, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Dude, it takes place in the 90's. It's called "That 90's Show." I'd imagine they'd get it.

that's fine with me Dom, if we listed everything, it would be way too many Ctjf83^talk 04:25, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Boyz II Men

Is not a blues band. i'm not sure why somebody wrote that homer's early group was a blues band when they're a parody of an R&B group 24.16.192.56 (talk) 05:58, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't say that anywhere in the article, and please add new comments to the bottom of the page.--The Dominator (talk) 06:02, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I'll change it, it is closer to an R&B than a blues band Ctjf83^talk 06:03, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

You mean it's closer to Rythym & Blues?

Sorry my bad, I didn't see that.--The Dominator (talk) 06:06, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

The song is called "I'll make love to you" for those who care. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.197.212.152 (talk) 20:34, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

sadgasms second song

i hear "shape me" and not "shave me" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.74.183.180 (talk) 09:51, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Back to the Future

This 1980s movie is also referenced, specifically the scene in Back to the Future where the "Marlon Berry" character contacts "Chuck Berry" and tells him "remember that new sound you were looking for? well here it is!" and holds the phone. In this episode, Kurt Cobain's "Brother" Marlon Cobain calls him on the phone and says pretty much the same thing —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.24.0.253 (talk) 01:12, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

It was in there, probably removed by mistake, I'll add it back. And add new sections to the bottom of the page, not randomly in the middle, and sign your comments.--The Dominator (talk) 01:36, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Marvin. The cousin's name is Marvin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.86.96.10 (talk) 23:32, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Sorry Dominator, was my first edit of a discussion page

love, Sean —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.24.1.4 (talk) 20:31, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Sorry should have made my self clearer, sign your posts by typing ~~~~~ or on the control panel above the editing area press the signature button to the right of the red one.--The Dominator (talk) 22:58, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Politically Incorrect

Is this song based on any real one, or is it just written specially for show? 217.70.48.88 (talk) 11:04, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Sleeping Together

Marge and Homer do not stop sleeping together when Marge is in love with Prof August, they hadn't yet. In the beginning of the flashback, Homer suggests that they velcro their Futons together, and Marge says she isn't ready for that. Homer doesn't try to push her into it, because there is a billboard outside their window where Sonic the Hedgehog is promoting saving sex until marriage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.82.121.47 (talk) 17:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Verify

I just added a verify tag to the plot section. Maybe I should go back to the political articles where I prefer to spend my time, but unless and until someone can link to the script, editing out bits and pieces that are "cultural references" doesn't hide the fact that this article has no verifiable proof as to what the contents of the plot were, either. --M@rēino 21:33, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

The episode itself is used as a reference, many episode articles are FA without citing the plot, I have removed the tag and please do not add it back. There is no original research in the plot section.--The Dominator (talk) 21:36, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Dominator...why would you need to verify the plot? Ctjf83^talk 21:37, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

And I'm pretty sure that linking to the script would be copyright violation.--The Dominator (talk) 21:39, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

The reason why "you need to verify the plot" is to avoid errors or vandalism. For example, the plot section says that the professor's name was Stefanè August and that Homer's songs were titled "Shave me" and "Mardgerine". What if I disagree? What if I, watching the episode, came away with the genuine belief that the article should read, respectively, Stephan August, Shape Me, and Margerine? Right now, there's no Wikipedia:Reliable sources to which the reader can go to find out whether Wikipedia is correct. --M@rēino 21:49, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

There is no existent source so the episode is used, please stop edit-warring.--The Dominator (talk) 21:50, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• I am not edit-warring and I am insulted by the suggestion that I am. What I want to know is, if you're admitting that "there is no existent source", how can you justify allowing this article to run without a maintenance tag? I've read WP:VERIFY and WP:RS twice now, and it says nothing about how you suddenly don't need sources if one of the editors claims he/she saw it on TV. --M@rēino 21:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Cape Feare, Homer's Phobia Homer's Enemy, those are a few Simpson episode Featured articles, none have plot sources other than the episode itself.--The Dominator (talk) 22:00, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and sorry about the edit-warring accusation, I thought that you reverted again.--The Dominator (talk) 22:01, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• Thanks; I've misread edit histories enough times over the years that I can't get too mad. Anyway, thanks for the 3 links to FA Simpsons articles. I submit to you that those 3 articles share one key difference from the current article: they all link to the SNPP.com recap (see template:snpp capsule). SNPP is a trustworthy, detail-oriented website that specializes in precisely the topic of resolving the minutae of Simpsons episodes. It is, in other words, a verifiable source. SNPP has yet to post a recap of That 90's Show. Until that time, or until some other website with roughly the same standards posts something of similar quality, this article is lacking in verification, and needs a maintenance tag to show that it temporarily is not up to Wikipedia's highest standards. --M@rēino 22:11, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Adding reference tags to plot summaries is not standard practice on Simpson episode articles, the Simpson archive is around five seasons behind, so I doubt we will get a recap soon, if you check out some of the more recent episodes (in the infobox in this article) you will notice that they do not use the "references" tag.--The Dominator (talk) 22:16, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

There are only a few dozen Simpsons episodes, but there are 2.2 million Wikipedia articles. I don't see why the Simpsons articles should have their own rules. --M@rēino 02:14, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

There are over 400 + some other 200, 000 articles on episodes, films and books that do the same.--The Dominator (talk) 02:18, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I just noticed this discussion. You can use an episode as a source for a basic plot outline (no OR, no cultural references, no POV, no analysis, just a retelling of the plot), but the cultural references section and everything else does require citations. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 19:01, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Couch Gag

This is about the couch gag: the phrase "ceci n'est pas un couch gag" comes from a painting called The Treachery of Images by belgian artist René Magritte. I think it's relevant to the show... 78.20.120.82 (talk) 21:54, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

refrence to kurt cobain,homer on drugs?

i dunno why this keps getting removed but i feel the scene where marge thinks homers on drugs but it later turns out to be insulin is a refrence to kurt cobians heroin addiction, esspesshally scince this episode is about Grunge and that it already has other references to him and his band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Simpsonsrules (talk • contribs) 22:21, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Because it's original research. You feel, find a source and you can add it.--The Dominator (talk) 22:42, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Continuity Reboot?

Needs to remain in the article, if only to: 1. List the minor additions made to the Simpsons canon as well as stating outright that the episode DOES overturn pretty erases a very large number of Simpsons flashback episodes from canon...... —Preceding unsigned comment added by BakerBaker (talk • contribs) 04:05, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Such a section would be nice, but it counts as OR and per Wikipedia policy, we have to avoid that. It's also somewhat POVish. -- Scorpion⁰⁴²² 04:15, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Please stop removing edits without discussion and making uncivil comments, I have explained that it is original research, and your other changes were unnecessary.--The Dominator (talk) 04:16, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Did you just blank my userpage?--The Dominator (talk) 04:17, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

The thing is, they've been gradually doing this for quite a while now. homer was revealed to be 39 in that edison episode, and they've already dabbled in alternate-histories a few times. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.122.63.142 (talk) 18:54, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Song

Isn't the song called "Marjorie"? --212.184.196.213 (talk) 09:05, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

No it's either Margerine or Mardgerine (probably the first), apparently it's a parody of a song called "Glycerine".--The Dominator (talk) 15:39, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

It's "Margerine", I seem to remember there was a little thing in the corner of the video that said so. However there were moments where it did sound like what he was singing was "Margorie."--T. Anthony (talk) 09:06, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

The Professor?

Who did the voice of the professor? Was it a guest, or a cast member?

As far as I could tell it's "just" Hank Azaria, regular cast member. daff (talk) 01:51, 31 January 2008 (UTC)