Talk:Tennis at the 2016 Summer Olympics – Men's doubles
Latest comment: 8 years ago by Schwede66 in topic Men's Doubles or Men's doubles?
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Djokovic Participation
editNovak Djokovic is still showing as entered in the doubles. Is Troicki taking his place? Graemec2 (talk) 11:31, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
- From what I can see Djokovic is still participating, so I don't see what the issue is.
F1lover22 talk 11:35, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
Men's Doubles or Men's doubles?
editEarlier today, I moved this page from "Men's Doubles" to "Men's doubles" as the doubles part isn't a proper noun and should thus not be capitalised. Arielslytherin reverted the move with the edit summary "capitalized is the pattern for the other events". I agree that consistency is important, and what that particular editor refers to is that all the other events in the Tennis at the 2016 Summer Olympics category are also capitalised. And consistency is important; no doubt about that. What I had done, though, is not check the 2016 category, but I had checked some earlier Olympic "Men's doubles" pages, and doubles was always lower case. I've now had a look at the category pages and indeed, it's the pages in the 2016 category that are the odd ones out, as all previous Olympic events use the lower case versions. Here are convenient links from 1988 onwards (when tennis was included as an Olympic event once more): 2016, 2012, 2008, 2004, 2000, 1996, 1992, and 1988.
I thus suggest that all the pages in the 2016 category get moved to lower case, to bring the categories in line with one another. There's probably no point to go through a formal move request, and this discussion here is a chance for anybody to bring forward an argument why the 2016 category entries are right, and it's all the previous years that should be moved. And if there is controversy, we can always start the formal move discussion to see where community consensus sits. Schwede66 02:28, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
- By consistency, I think Arielslytherin meant in terms of other tennis events. For example it's 2016 US Open – Men's Singles rather than "Men's singles". It it were up to me I would have it upper case as I from what I can see, the Olympic events seems to be the odd ones out. Whatever decision is made, it needs to be final because it's counterproductive to be moving the article from one place to another every second day. What do you think @Fyunck(click):
F1lover22 talk 08:52, 9 August 2016 (UTC)- I for one don't mind either way; I was just trying to achieve consistency. If this 'problem' is wider than these Olympic articles, maybe there needs to be a wider discussion about it, and then the decision documented on the tennis project page. Happy to lend a hand sorting this out. Schwede66 08:58, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
- There might need to be. I did a cursory check and see: List of French Open men's singles champions, Tennis at the 2015 Pan American Games – Mixed Doubles, Tennis at the 2013 Summer Universiade – Men's Doubles. NBC Olympics uses small s&d for these listings, but the ITF Rio website tends to use capital S&D for draws and such. It's probably inconsistent here because it's inconsistent everywhere. Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:21, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
- @Sportsfan 1234: you might as well join this discussion. And regarding naming conventions, I see you've moved all the 2016 articles bar one - why that omission? Schwede66 17:53, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
- I agree with the initial comment. I did move the mixed doubles page too, but it gave me an error. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 18:13, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
- While I'm not picky about which way it falls for the Olympics, one thing I would say in looking at this. While "doubles" may or may not be a proper noun in this context, neither is "men's." We see it capitalized more often because it is at the beginning of a sentence or topic, but it could just as easily be "Tennis at the 2016 Summer Olympics – men's doubles." I'm not sure what way I'd do it from scratch here at wikipedia but I would likely keep both "Men's" and "Doubles" the same unless convinced otherwise. I see that Sportsfan has moved an article with the summary of "naming convention per WP:Olympics." Two things, I'd like to see the link to the discussion of this at, and I'm not sure WP:Olympic convention trumps WikiProject Tennis convention (and vice versa). If anything we should search out Olympic websites and the press so that we can determine the usage by proper sourcing. Fyunck(click) (talk) 18:40, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
- Apparently we have reached consensus to go to two upper cases. Hold - when did we agree on that? User:Bobbie73, can you enlighten us, please? Schwede66 06:39, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
- While I'm not picky about which way it falls for the Olympics, one thing I would say in looking at this. While "doubles" may or may not be a proper noun in this context, neither is "men's." We see it capitalized more often because it is at the beginning of a sentence or topic, but it could just as easily be "Tennis at the 2016 Summer Olympics – men's doubles." I'm not sure what way I'd do it from scratch here at wikipedia but I would likely keep both "Men's" and "Doubles" the same unless convinced otherwise. I see that Sportsfan has moved an article with the summary of "naming convention per WP:Olympics." Two things, I'd like to see the link to the discussion of this at, and I'm not sure WP:Olympic convention trumps WikiProject Tennis convention (and vice versa). If anything we should search out Olympic websites and the press so that we can determine the usage by proper sourcing. Fyunck(click) (talk) 18:40, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
- I agree with the initial comment. I did move the mixed doubles page too, but it gave me an error. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 18:13, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
- @Sportsfan 1234: you might as well join this discussion. And regarding naming conventions, I see you've moved all the 2016 articles bar one - why that omission? Schwede66 17:53, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
- There might need to be. I did a cursory check and see: List of French Open men's singles champions, Tennis at the 2015 Pan American Games – Mixed Doubles, Tennis at the 2013 Summer Universiade – Men's Doubles. NBC Olympics uses small s&d for these listings, but the ITF Rio website tends to use capital S&D for draws and such. It's probably inconsistent here because it's inconsistent everywhere. Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:21, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
- I for one don't mind either way; I was just trying to achieve consistency. If this 'problem' is wider than these Olympic articles, maybe there needs to be a wider discussion about it, and then the decision documented on the tennis project page. Happy to lend a hand sorting this out. Schwede66 08:58, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
- I have written on the user's talk page to see if he want's to explain himself. Since this discussion seems to be going nowhere I suggest starting a proper one at WikiProject Tennis or WikiProject Olympics. Where would be the best place for it? @Fyunck(click): @Schwede66:
F1lover22 talk 11:40, 27 August 2016 (UTC)- You'll probably get more traffic right now at the Olympic talk page. Like I said, in the outside world I see "Men's Doubles" and "men's doubles" so "Men's doubles" seems like the odd man out. Whatever the decision, it'll probably only cover the Olympic side of tennis, not all the other tennis articles. Fyunck(click) (talk) 17:54, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
- Olympics is the better place to have the discussion as these naming conventions may have an impact on more than just tennis. Different topic - I have to say that I was utterly confused by the watchlist entry, as it showed that Bobbie73 had deleted the page under G6. Bobbie73's account is a few months old and there are a total of 100 edits. A new user deleting pages - how does that work? I searched in the deletion log and I see that it was in fact User:Anthony Appleyard who deleted the various pages; maybe Anthony could let us know whether something went wrong with the watchlist entry. But I'd also be inclined to ask Anthony to restore the status quo, as for the time being, it achieves consistency across all the Olympics tennis articles back to 1988. F1lover22, when you draft a discussion piece, make sure that it is clear that the scope includes all Olympic tennis articles and not just 2016. If you want to draft the discussion in a sandbox and get feedback on it first, I'd be happy to chip in. Schwede66 18:16, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
- I'll definitely sandbox the discussion piece first because we all know how much controversy/opinion it is going to cause. It definitely stretches beyond the tennis articles as well (e.g. Table tennis at the 2016 Summer Olympics – Men's singles). I'll make a rough draft and then anyone is free to change/improve it.
F1lover22 talk 20:22, 27 August 2016 (UTC)- I think the discussion should simply be about the Olympic tennis pages.... not tennis pages in general or table tennis pages or badminton players. Every sport may be different and to try and bring every potential sport under the same umbrella just because they have a section called Men's Doubles" is over-reaching. Fyunck(click) (talk) 21:06, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
- I've written out a rough draft but it definitely needs some additional input. Any feedback is welcome and feel free to go ahead and make some changes.
User:F1lover22/sandbox/Olympic @Schwede66:
F1lover22 talk 21:37, 27 August 2016 (UTC)- I'd have tweaked it to read a little different. More like this. Fyunck(click) (talk) 23:15, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
- Perfect! So should I go ahead and post it?
F1lover22 talk 00:20, 28 August 2016 (UTC)- You only posted this today, so give others a chance to comment and tweak. We are in no hurry. Fyunck(click) (talk) 00:36, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
- I've had a look whether there's some relevant WP policy or guidelines that could be referred to, but nothing in Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Capital letters seemed to quite fit. Good to go from my perspective. Schwede66 00:40, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
- You only posted this today, so give others a chance to comment and tweak. We are in no hurry. Fyunck(click) (talk) 00:36, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
- Perfect! So should I go ahead and post it?
- I'd have tweaked it to read a little different. More like this. Fyunck(click) (talk) 23:15, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
- I've written out a rough draft but it definitely needs some additional input. Any feedback is welcome and feel free to go ahead and make some changes.
- I think the discussion should simply be about the Olympic tennis pages.... not tennis pages in general or table tennis pages or badminton players. Every sport may be different and to try and bring every potential sport under the same umbrella just because they have a section called Men's Doubles" is over-reaching. Fyunck(click) (talk) 21:06, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
- I'll definitely sandbox the discussion piece first because we all know how much controversy/opinion it is going to cause. It definitely stretches beyond the tennis articles as well (e.g. Table tennis at the 2016 Summer Olympics – Men's singles). I'll make a rough draft and then anyone is free to change/improve it.
- Olympics is the better place to have the discussion as these naming conventions may have an impact on more than just tennis. Different topic - I have to say that I was utterly confused by the watchlist entry, as it showed that Bobbie73 had deleted the page under G6. Bobbie73's account is a few months old and there are a total of 100 edits. A new user deleting pages - how does that work? I searched in the deletion log and I see that it was in fact User:Anthony Appleyard who deleted the various pages; maybe Anthony could let us know whether something went wrong with the watchlist entry. But I'd also be inclined to ask Anthony to restore the status quo, as for the time being, it achieves consistency across all the Olympics tennis articles back to 1988. F1lover22, when you draft a discussion piece, make sure that it is clear that the scope includes all Olympic tennis articles and not just 2016. If you want to draft the discussion in a sandbox and get feedback on it first, I'd be happy to chip in. Schwede66 18:16, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
- You'll probably get more traffic right now at the Olympic talk page. Like I said, in the outside world I see "Men's Doubles" and "men's doubles" so "Men's doubles" seems like the odd man out. Whatever the decision, it'll probably only cover the Olympic side of tennis, not all the other tennis articles. Fyunck(click) (talk) 17:54, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
- Instead of arguing about a capital OR NOT, people better put their time and energy in something that needs to be done. All FedCup-code's were changed on the FedCup-website two weeks ago, and we're not even half way changing all of them on Wikidata. That makes way more sense then arguing about a capital D in the titel. Edoderoo (talk) 09:29, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
- You worry about what you think is an issue and we'll try sort out something which is causing problems as well. The issue stretches far beyond "a capital D in the titel" as you would say...
F1lover22 talk 09:35, 28 August 2016 (UTC)- Convenient link to the discussion. Schwede66 18:01, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
- You worry about what you think is an issue and we'll try sort out something which is causing problems as well. The issue stretches far beyond "a capital D in the titel" as you would say...