Talk:Tea (meal)/Archive 1

Page difficult to follow

This page has become difficult to follow. In my view it would make more sense to rename it as Tea (meal) and treat High tea as a variant of that more general concept. Comments, anyone, before I charge ahead and do that? seglea 18:10, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

Go for it! see comments on Cucumber sandwich-- I'll paste them here

As for the High tea article it is a bit of a mess, as you say. It tries to include too many different concepts. But I shudder in the face of trying to change it. Quite apart from the regional differences there are the class nuances! Perhaps we need a 'List of mealtimes, as ordered by social class' page cross referenced with a 'List of mealtimes as ordered by region (UK)'! I think I might leave that to someone else. Monk Bretton 18:29, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

Good luck. Monk Bretton 18:35, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

Page moved

I have moved this articel across form High Tea, as suggested above. It seem much more sensible for it to be here.Grinner 13:43, Jul 21, 2004 (UTC)

Calling lunch "dinner"?

I come from Yorkshire, where in my experience "tea" is (broadly-speaking)the working-class term for the 6pm-ish meal (the main evening meal - typically eaten a little earlier than the middle-class "dinner") and "dinner" is the working-class midday meal (which is lunch in more standard/middle class usage) and also the standard word used in schools. I disagree with this statement in the article: "Tea = Main evening meal Especially in East Anglia and the North of England, tea as a meal is synonymous with dinner in Standard English. Under such usage, the afternoon tea meal is sometimes termed dinner, or called 'afternoon tea' or 'high tea' so as to differentiate it from just plain 'tea', the evening meal. In parts of Scotland, the Midlands and North-West of England, the term 'dinner' replaces lunch and 'tea' is synonymous with the main evening meal"

I think that last bit should also refer to the north of England in general. I can't imagine a working-class northerner eating an "afternoon tea meal" in the first place, and certainly can't imagine them calling that their "dinner", should they stop work for such a late-afternoon snack. Neither can I imagine this person referring to this as his "high tea" as opposed to the normal "tea" he is going to have a couple of hours later... I'd just take out this whole bit apart from the last part, and say Northern England instead of North-West England. --Oliver R

I live in Northern Ireland, where dinner (the evening meal) is sometimes called "tea", which I would presume to be a Scottish origin. Some of my Australian friends also name the evening meal "tea" while others use "dinner", and all of us understand "dinner" to be synonymous with "tea". However, none of us name the midday meal "dinner", with the exception that the midday meals provided to children by the school canteen are called "school dinners", although the interval is still known as "lunchtime".

In that case, what part of the world names the midday meal "dinner"? I do not want this article to be misleading. --Jonathan Drain 08:11, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The midday meal is definately dinner for me (I'm from Newcastle), and this seems to be the case across the rest of northern England. Also some parts of Scotland too (the central-west in particular), but not across the whole country. Grinner 10:07, Jan 12, 2005 (UTC)

Midday meal is dinner for me too hence school dinners. For me it is post waking up- breakfast, noonish- dinner, 6pmish- tea and then sometime just before bed -supper. This bunch of articles is very confusing for what is what.--Josquius 11:23, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

It may be difficult to get it right, since basically different people call each meal something different! I'm from Scotland, and I say breakfast, lunch, and tea. I get the impression that calling the midday meal 'dinner' is a northern English thing. Ben davison 11:48, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

For me, growing up on a farm in Wales in the 60s (and hence with both parents to hand all day), the schedule was: breakfast (8 a.m.-ish), dinner (noonish), tea (3 p.m.), supper (6 p.m.), and a cuppa and a biscuit before bed about 9.30 p.m. ... and we wonder why we're overweight! -- Arwel (talk) 23:47, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

To add to the confusion, speaking as an 18-year-old Glaswegian Scot, meals are Breakfast, lunch and dinner, which is how most people my age that I know have them. --Reveilled 19:32, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Breakfast, dinner, tea, to me in Devon. --86.144.60.11 12:43, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

breakfast, 2nd breakfast, dinner, tea and supper for me in North east Lincolnshire.

Since it seems that the names of the various meals varies hugely within the UK, I've added a statement to that effect in the article. --Reveilled 05:34, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh, no no no, you've got it all wrong...its Breakfast, Brunch, Lunch, Dinner. :-) although seriously there is a growing slang calling any meal between lunch and dinner "linner". Cheers!. (Mazighe (talk) 20:06, 10 January 2008 (UTC))

In the Northeastern United States, Where I grew up, Dinner and supper are used more or less interchageably to mean the evening meal, no matter what time it is served or what is eaten. Dinner CAN take on a more formal tone, such as when you serve the eveing meal to guests you would refer to it as a "dinner party." Supper usually refers to a more informal evening meal, but apart from special occasions they are used interchangeably. An older tradition, which I believe is more widespread across the United States, is to speak of "Sunday Dinner" which is usually a large midday meal that would take the place of lunch and is uaually a family and/or holiday gathering (an evening meal on such occasions would typically be a light snack, usualy leftovers from the midday meal). Christmas and Easter Dinners are very often eaten at midday or put off until the early afternoon, around two or three o'Clock, but this varies with family tradition as well as region of the country. So "dinner" is an everyday term for the evening meal, typically the largest meal eaten by Americans, or special gatherings on a Sunday or holiday. Tea is just a drink, although as noted some fancy hotels adopt old world customs, but yoyur average middle class American would find the terminology confusing unless thay were well-travelled. [User Marc Healy Nov. 20 2007] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.107.32.130 (talk) 19:53, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

It's always been breakfast, lunch and supper for me (from various parts of England). Dinner for Sundays (and school dinners at lunchtime. Friends who eat earlier in the evening call it tea. I know people who call lunch or supper 'dinner', generally whichever is the larger meal Mark Wheaver (talk) 23:44, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

On confusion

Just reading this afresh, it seems to me that the confusion is largely caused by the headings. While there's nothing wrong with them, strictly speaking, the article actually does not follow the by-country headings, instead it is written by type of meal.

I think just re-arranging the subheading is going to make a world of difference.

Quill 21:54, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Duchess of Bedfordshire

The story of Tea originating with the Duchess of Bedfordshire smacks on the surface of urban legend status. It might not be, but it sounds very much like an anectdotal "this is how this began" story with no real veracity. Does anyone have a source for this? 63.167.38.67 21:11, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Total urban legend, so much that the first thing that comes up on google is this.

Duchess of Bedfordshire This is insane!!

Of course it's an urban legend, it had nothing to do with the 'Duchess of Bedfordshire'. It's stupid urban legend spread by stupid sites like "sallys-place.com"!!

It first first taken noticed by Vasco da Gama when he discovered the maritime path to India and then sold by the Dutch in Europe. It was THEN made popular in the UK by the Portuguese 'Queen Catherine of Braganza, queen-consort of Charles II of England' in 1662, way before the Duchess(http://collectibles.about.com/od/teapots/ss/teatime_2.htm and in http://www.tea.co.uk/index.php?pgId=98!!)

<-- Are you confusing the drink for the meal? Even without historical reference it just makes sense that tea (the drink) pre-dated tea (the meal). Anyway, urban legends aside... can we discuss this over tea?

This is proposterous. I'll change when I find the time. No wonder Wikipedia isn't allowed to be quoted in university papers...

<-- Talk pages should not become a platform for criticising the veracity of Wikipedia (except, of course, if that is the topic). Otherwise we run the risk that it will become more like the /b/ channel on 4chan :P

The article has been changed to show that this "fact" is disputed. If you have a source to show it is definitely incorrect, please change the article to show that it is definitely an urban legend. — Eric Herboso 03:40, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I've heard the Duchess story in sources that seem more reliable than "collectibles.com," cited above, and it is certainly correct to point out that the beverage of tea was drunk long before the meal "tea" came into fashion. Therefore, the Vasco da Gama reference is irrelevant. (138.16.28.233 02:41, 30 August 2007 (UTC))

If you check the OED, you'll see the word "tea" (to mean an afternoon meal) was first known in 1738. This was well before the Duchess' time, therefore the stuff about the Duchess is completely false.

A "copy and paste" from OED follows:

"1738 SWIFT Pol. Conversat. Introd. 2 Whether they meet..at Meals, Tea, or Visits. 1778 F. BURNEY Evelina (1791) I. xxvi. 144, I was relieved by a summons to tea. 1789 WESLEY Wks. (1872) IV. 453 At breakfast and at tea, on these two days, I met all the Society."

Retron 10:17, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Rose, champagne "customary" with Afternoon Tea??

On what planet?! No wonder academics just can't take Wikipedia seriously. The additions by an anon. editor speak to a tea party. Afternoon tea is by definition informal, with no set or rigid structure. Can't stop to edit now, but I will, I assure you, unless somebody beats me to it....Quill 00:46, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

citation needed for substantive change

See difference by User:Chunkylefunga. Information was deleted and other info added. Justification for this is necessary, or a revert is in order. — Eric Herboso 03:40, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Oops, missed this. I removed

"Generally, educated Englishmen say Dinner for their evening meal"

because it seems like personal bias and snobbery asserted as fact. AlmostReadytoFly 12:06, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Didn't see anywhere else to put this: "Tea" is US slang for Marijuana (Read Kerouac) My understanding of "high" tea was code for smoking weed.

Teabreak

This article might be the best pace to mention the extremely common term teabreak, which is used, at least in my own country, to describe a break during working hours. Standard is 15 minutes in the morning, around 10am and another around 3pm for normal working hours. I'm surprised it isn't mentioned already. --Mal 03:33, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Yet a teabreak is a break for tea rather than tea (meal) - the term tea break already redirects to tea culture, which I think is probably the best place for it. Better than here, anyhow. Barnabypage 11:03, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't think its good enough. The information there regarding tea breaks is sparse and inaccurate. Regardless of that however, it should still, most definately, be mentioned here anyway. Often employers will shorten the term to "tea" when letting employees know that they can go for their tea break. --Mal 15:55, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

But this article is explicitly about the MEAL tea whereas a tea break is, surely, for the drink tea rather than the meal. Barnabypage 16:20, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Not really accurate in my opinion: during teabreaks, in my experience, snacks are often taken as part and parcel of the event. Tea is actually drunk less often than carbonated drinks. The snacks range from confectionary to soup or sandwiches. In fact, I can see the section for Australia and New Zealand describes something very similar, but not entirely the same, as in the UK. --Mal 10:38, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Snacks, sure, but not (necessarily) a meal. SOED: "Tea break: a pause, usu. between periods of work, allowing for relaxation, the drinking of tea, etc.". I think it would be confusing for readers unfamiliar with the concepts of tea (meal) and tea breaks to imply that they are related. The best thing to do may be to create a new article explicitly on the topic of the tea break. Barnabypage 10:46, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Not when a) teabreaks are meals; b) are often referred to as 'tea', as in "Go for your tea now?" and c) there is a section that describes exactly the same thing in other countries... all of which I've said before. --Mal 09:33, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

TEA...many things to many people...

One of the problems with this article is that "tea" means so many different things to so many different cultures, communities, and even family groups. An entire dissertation could be done (perhaps has been) on dining habits, and what they are called at various times in history in various communities around the world.

THis article isn't too far wrong (forgiving the Duchess of Bedfordshire myth) but definately is only one path through the maze of meanings of "tea." Indeed a community in East Norwich, UK might have completely different social customs, food ways, and meanings surrounding "tea"...while Scarsdale, NY will have their own social customs, foodways, and meanings. An article trying to be exhustive in all the subtle nuances would be thousands of pages long.....

Again, this article isn't too far off the mark.

Very interesting. I would read additional articles expanding on the exceptions taken, or related articles. I am from Oklahoma, United States. We sometimes refer to the noon meal as dinner. I've heard people refer to the 10:00 morning break meal as dinner. Again, how very interesting.

In Canada tea can be served between 3:00 and 5:00 but often coffee is served in the same mannor with the meal reffered to as coffee. Could this be considered the same meal? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.165.113.120 (talk) 22:38, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

dinner is the main meal

as is remarked on the dinner page, dinner is the main meal of the day, whether taken at mid-day or in the evening Jdvictoriabc 02:18, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Why is this difficult?

Breakfast is the first meal of the day, lunch is eaten at 1pm, tea at 5pm and dinner at 8pm. If you're particularly greedy, supper can be had at about 10pm. I've changed the 'typical' teatime from 4 o'clock to 5 o'clock on the article, but someone will doubtless change it back again.

This is the sort of article which is always going to get changed willy nilly. But certainly in England, I believe the above meal schedule would be considered correct (indeed, those poor unfortunates calling lunch 'dinner' would be castigated as 'non-U' lol)

I should get out more.

Nct26 (talk) 21:01, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

In the US dinner is at 5 or 6pm, and there is no meal after that. Sluggoster (talk) 07:23, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

THIS PAGE SUCKS

What is going on with this page? Has anyone heard of citations or are we all just writing whatever the hell we like on wikipedia these days? Its not even as if its well written. e.g "sandwiches" coming up twice withing a few words of each other. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.216.5.64 (talk) 00:25, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Nct, that meal schedule would be considered correct by some. There really is no agreed schedule, it varies by class, geography, personal preference, etc. Hence why this article is having the difficulties it is. Depending on what sort of tea we are talking about, 4 might be the typical time, 5 might be (although seems a bit weird to me, neither one thing nor the other), 6 might be. Failure to understand that your usage is not the usage is not going to help. Skittle (talk) 10:10, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I have my breakfast at 8am, my dinner at 12-1 and my tea at 7pm. Also, I occasionally have a snack at 4pm. Mat, Stoke-on-Trent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.13.13.200 (talk) 16:50, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Needs re-working

This article often strays from the intended meaning of 'tea' as in meal. Tea (meal), in this case, refers to various meals held at various times in specific regions of the world. The article should not reference the drink tea (i.e. in as Italy, where it describes how Italians drink their tea). It should also not discuss any and all afternoon meals held in countries where it is not considered tea (i.e. Mexico, Germany, Italy, etc...). Those are not 'teas', so why mention them? Many, many countries have different meal customs -- they are not all 'teas'.

I didn't make any changes, as it would be important to see if there is consensus first.Veggiehead (talk) 12:13, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

"Tea" not meal in Mexico

"Tea" as a meal is not called "tea" or "té" (the Spanish word for "tea") in Mexico... How do you get rid of that FALTY information? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.87.112.159 (talk) 19:46, 27 October 2008

Use the edit link at the top. Delete the faulty text in the edit window. Before you save your edit, make sure you explain why you are deleting stuff in the "edit summary" box, or someone will revert your edit.--James Chenery (talk) 17:38, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

External Links

Is that second external link not spam? --James Chenery (talk) 17:38, 12 June 2009 (UTC)