Talk:Tammie Jo Shults

Photo is not copyvio

I reached out to the MidAmerica Nazarene University PR department and asked permission to use the current photo under a CC-BY-SA license. Carol Best, the PR officer for the university, emailed me back and granted use under the license. All I did was crop the photo and upload it. Please do not delete it as a copyvio; it isn't. Glad she has her page now.--Brad Patrick (talk) 17:18, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

• @BradPatrick: Sorry but I nominated the image for deletion at Commons because it did not seem to have the claimed CC licence. Getting legal permission properly registered is a pain – see Commons:OTRS#If_you_are_NOT_the_copyright_holder. I've been trying to help another group get an image of Maria Jastrzębska loaded but it has been deleted twice so far. If you don't observe the formalities then that's what happens, alas. Andrew D. (talk) 17:38, 20 April 2018 (UTC)
• @BradPatrick: I'm sure someone will nominate [1] again for deletion. Comment's be uploaders might not be viewed as authentic, and not everyone knows you're a wiki admin and did get permission to post. There is a process to get it verified [2] to avoid future copyvio issues. Bohbye (talk) 20:59, 20 April 2018 (UTC)
• Thank you for the feedback. Copyright/Copyvio process formalization is not something I have kept up with. In the spirit of WP:BOLD, I occasionally reach out in person to try to free images where I think someone rational might be willing to help. Please remember the rest of the known universe could not care less about satisfying procedural requirements on Commons; our goal is to build a better encyclopedia. In this case, I simply reached out to the nice folks at the University and they were willing to acknowledge the photo under a copyleft license. Good for us!--Brad Patrick (talk) 17:22, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

Born "around 1962" (?)

Can't anybody find a source for her actual birth year (better yet, birth date)? I've tried, but not too hard. —2606:A000:1126:4CA:0:98F2:CFF6:1782 (talk) 00:54, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

Discussion: first cohort of female F/A-18 Hornet pilots or just first female F/A-18 Hornet pilots

Hi @WWGB and @Udas, I realize that you have disagreement on whether to add "cohort" or not. I was about to undo @WWGB's revision revid=837817629, and but then just realized it was an undo already. So I want to do a discussion here to seek if we can reach an edit consensus:

@WWGB, the source you cite: http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article209178274.html actually wrote in the first paragraph

• The Southwest pilot hailed as a hero for landing a crippled Southwest plane was among the first female fighter pilots to serve in the U.S. Navy.

Which seems to me was a summary of a citation from the Navy statement

• She was "among the first cohort of women pilots to transition to tactical aircraft," said Navy spokeswoman Christina Sears in a statement.

and from a classmate's Cindy Foster

• Foster said that not only was Shults among the first female fighter pilots, she was the first woman to fly an F/A-18 Hornet for the Navy.

It seems to me keeping the cohort maintains the accuracy of Navy statement. And to what extend the accuracy of a single individual's quotation will distinguish cohort or not remains unclear.

What do you think?

Xinbenlv (talk) 18:03, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

Hi, IMHO especially for a page about a living person, the source has to be quite hard to refute. My vote is for "cohort", in agreement with Xinbenlv. I do understand that Foster, the batch mate, does have a claim to Capt. Shults being the first.

U Das (talk) 07:18, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Changed to "one of the first", don't need the verbosity of the word "cohort". WWGB (talk) 07:29, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

I'm ok with "one of the first", accurate and still identifying the sense of significance. Xinbenlv (talk) 21:15, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

According to the Navy: She was "among the first cohort of women pilots to transition to tactical aircraft," said Navy spokeswoman Christina Sears in a statement. So we confirm she was amongst the first in tactical aircraft. They didn't mention the F-18, because obviously, they have additional tactical aircraft besides the F-18. So if the classmate says "that not only was Shults among the first female fighter pilots, she was the first woman to fly an F/A-18 Hornet for the Navy", is that not reliable enough to confirm "first to fly" the F-18? Bohbye (talk) 08:08, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Over-quotation

This article contains quotations longer than necessary. The entire §Military Fly Moms and §Reactions sections are dominated by large quotes. This could just as easily be treated in original prose that does not include original research if we simply summarize the content of the sources. I have tagged this page with a template for that reason. Flytilega (talk) 20:55, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

I agree. -- ψλ ● ✉ ✓ 00:20, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

I agree too, let's remove the bloat quotes. WWGB (talk) 23:58, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Me too, we don't need so many quotes. U Das (talk) 03:40, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

I concur. The quotes are excessively long. I try to limit quotes to two or three sentences, carefully selected to convey something that cannot be summarized easily. This biography has block quotes of eleven, eight and four sentences. Most of that content can easily be summarized instead. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:06, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

As long that the quotes don’t get cut too short, and still make sense as quotes, i’m fine with shortening them. Bohbye (talk) 00:15, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

Y I trimmed the quotes as part of the DYK process. Andrew D. (talk) 06:52, 6 July 2018 (UTC)