Talk:Taj Mahal/Archive 6

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Semi-protected edit request on 20 October 2015

Request update in form of addition in Myth Section as the case filed to declare Taj Mahal as Tejo Mahalaya. The district court in India (Agra) has admitted a plea filed by six lawyers stating that the Taj Mahal is a Lord Shiva temple (Tejo Mahalaya) and Hindu devotees should be allowed to offer prayers there. The court has issued notices to the central government, union ministry of culture, home secretary and the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) and directed them to file their replies , however no reply has been filed by by 15th September 2015 by ASI this claim is related to P. N. Oak's petition to declare that a Hindu king built the Taj Mahal. Tapan

 Not done Pleas get filed all the time for one or the other reason. It would be worth mentioning if the court orders in favour. Wikipedia is not a collection of all indiscriminate information. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 08:47, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

In the article about Taj Mahal, it says: Mughal architecture which is hundred percent a lie, this is a Persian architecture . You can make a research by yourself. The problem with Wikipedia is that anybody can write whatever he or she wants about anything. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:569:7794:BB00:75D9:E399:3093:BD26 (talk) 22:22, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

References

English translation of Taj Mahal

@Tiger7253: The Taj Mahal is not a Hindu temple. [1] This battle to make the lead say Hindustani seems like an attempt at cultural appropriation. I have reverted the latest attempt because the new source was a website that copies and pastes from Wikipedia... Firebrace (talk) 14:23, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

And I am aware that the Taj Mahal is not a Hindu temple, but a Mughal mausoleum. What makes you think that I buy into that 'Hindu temple' idea? You have demonstrated nothing but utter, complete ignorance by assuming that I had an agenda, and by equating the 'Hindustani' language with 'Hinduism'. Hindustani is a language group that contains the subset languages 'Hindi' and 'Urdu' - the latter is the language that the Mughals happened to speak, which is entirely why I included the Hindustani language. What those two have to do with the 'Hindu temple' idea, I don't know. It would be like saying that calling the Taj Mahal by its English name is 'cultural appropriation' because it is a Muslim monument, not an Anglo-Saxon monument. Furthermore, the Mughal Empire happens to be Indian, which completely rubbishes your idea of cultural appropriation - an idea that isn't even relevant anywhere outside of the Western world to begin with. Pardon my language for I have never come across anyone on Wikipedia as ill-informed as you are. I will be reverting your edits as they are baseless, assumptive, and completely isolated from actual facts.Tiger7253 (talk) 09:45, 18 April 2016 (UTC)\

@Firebrace: Feel free to check out the new source I added. Persian and Hindustani, stated explicitly. This is not a place for conspiracy theories. If Hindustani suggests a Hindu link, then I might as well be a Christian because I speak English. Tiger7253 (talk) 09:55, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Then why the desperation to make it say both Persian and Hindustani? As you know, they are both derived from Arabic. I have reverted you again because the new source does not mention "Crown of Palaces", it just says that taj means crown in both varieties. Quote: "The name Taj Mahal is borrowed from Persian. The word Taj means crown in Hindustai and Urdu. The word for crown in Kiswahili is also taji." [2] That is all it says. By the way, no one does call the Taj Mahal by its English name, and cultural appropriation is absolutely relevant outside the Western world... Firebrace (talk) 13:22, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

@Firebrace: "Then why the desperation to make it say both Persian and Hindustani?" Perhaps because they are both? That's the point I've been trying to get across? I'm going to assume that you're a white westerner who can't speak my language and has therefore misunderstood my perfectly innocent addition (and you can't accuse an Indian of trying to appropriate his own heritage - for that is just laughable. You have absolutely no idea if I am Hindu or Muslim, and your knee-jerk accusation sounded extremely condescending). When the Mughals first entered India, the 'Hindustani' language didn't exist. People spoke simplified versions (Prakrits) of the Sanskrit language, until the Mughals brought in Turkic, Arabic, and Persian words and eventually moulded it with Prakrit in order to create 'Hindustani' (literally meaning "of India" - nothing to do with Hinduism). The Taj Mahal was was named in Hindustani, specifically Urdu, with Persian words that passed into India. If you were to take a look at the article about the Mughal Empire, you'd see Persian and Urdu in the infobox. Why do you think I included Hindustani in the first place?

If I had to draw a comparison to English - I'm sure you're aware that 'jungle' is a Sanskrit word (check the article), but today it is as English as it is Sanskrit because it passed into the English language during the British rule of India. And that is the entire essence of what I have been trying to get across. Persian is necessary and relevant because it is the original source of the words 'Taj' and 'Mahal', and similarly, 'Hindustani' is also relevant because 'Taj Mahal' is pretty much also an Indian word today just like how 'jungle' is an English word today. Hindustani, or Urdu if I'm to be pedantic, was the spoken language at the time the monument was built. Why would anyone exclude it then? Tiger7253 (talk) 14:28, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

"Why would anyone exclude it then?" Because you have failed to provide a WP:RELIABLE English-language source that says Taj Mahal means "Crown of Palaces" in Hindustani / Urdu. What may be obvious to you is not always obvious to others. Firebrace (talk) 14:39, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

@Tiger7253: Regarding your claim that cultural appropriation is irrelevant anywhere outside the Western world, it seems to happen all the time in India, and often with the Taj Mahal in particular; for example:

"He listed some of the most egregious examles of the rewriting of school history books in India and general misrepresentations of the history of Hinduism … One of my favorites is P.N. Oak's argument (in Tajmahal: The True Story, first published in 1989) that the Taj Mahal is not an Islamic mausoleum but an ancient Shiva Temple, which the Mughal emperor Shah Jahan commandeered from the then Maharaja of Jaipur, that the term Taj Mahal is not a Persian (from Arabic) phrase meaning "crown of palaces", but a corrupt form of the Sanskrit term Tejo Mahalaya signifying a Shiva Temple … "[3]

From Pluralism and Democracy in India: Debating the Hindu Right, OUP, 2015. Firebrace (talk) 15:42, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

@Firebrace: It has been on Wiktionary for years. I rest my case. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Taj_Mahal#Etymology As for the rest of everything that you said... I seriously don't know where to start. You are imposing your western sociopolitical frame of view on a vastly different culture that far eludes your grasp, based on what you have read on the Internet. That is like trying to fit a square cog in a round hole. If you are concerned about cultural appropriation, you have enough on your plate given that the people from your part of the world love taking our traditions like Yoga, Holi, the various Hindu and Buddhist practices and symbols, and then dissociating them from their roots by morphing them into something else entirely. That is cultural appropriation. This 'Indian on Indian' cultural appropriation that you just concocted is merely inter-religious bickering between people who speak the same language, are racially and ethnically the same, are of the same stock, nationality, and culture - just of different faiths. Inter-religious conflict doesn't count as cultural appropriation. The term you are looking for is religious intolerance. Indians are Indians - India is an ethnostate, it isn't a blank slate like the United States with people from every corner of the planet. Cultural appropriation is an entirely different beast that isn't even relevant to the Indian context at all. Would a Chinese Taoist be 'appropriating' the 'culture' of a Chinese Buddhist if he were to claim that some kind of famous stupa was a Taoist instead of a Buddhist monument, or would he merely be intolerant? I'm going to stop here, however, given that you just outed yourself by bringing up the 'Hindu right'. I now understand the entire premise behind your argument, and it doesn't surprise me in the least. I have come across many of your kind who are so eager to paint Muslims as the oppressed in an 'evil' Hindu society, and strangely enough that has no relevance here given I am not a part of the 'Hindu right' nor do I have absolutely nothing against my modern Indian Muslim brethren. You are the one who assumed that by assuming that my very valid inclusion of the Hindustani language was an attempt to lend credence to the Hindu temple idea, which I dismissed as fanatical nonsense a long time ago. If I wanted to do that, I would have added Sanskrit instead of Hindustani. I assume you thought the 'Hindu' in 'Hindustani' linked it to the faith, which is ironic given that Hindustani was pretty much a Mughal Muslim invention. 'Hindu' in this context is a geographical identifier - Hindustan is just the Persian word for India, and nothing more. 'Hindustani' simply becomes '(language) of India'. Tiger7253 (talk) 16:21, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

According to Wiktionary, Taj Mahal is the pronunciation used in Arabic, Persian, Hebrew, Hindi, Hindustani, and Punjabi. Should we include all the languages in our lead? Do you think the 10,000 people who read this article every day want to waste time reading all that nonsense, or do they just want to read about the Taj Mahal? And yes, there is Hindu culture and Islamic culture (nice picture of the Taj Mahal). Firebrace (talk) 17:53, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

@Firebrace: No. Hindustani is the official language of the state that the Taj Mahal is located in - Uttar Pradesh. Therefore, only Hindustani is relevant. It was specifically named in Hindustani, too, not in Punjabi or Arabic. If the Taj Mahal was in Punjab, then Punjabi would be relevant. Furthermore, as I said, all you'd have to do is take a look at the Mughal Empire's page to see that Urdu was the only other official language, other than Persian. Of course the inclusion of it is relevant. It forms a part of its etymology. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, not a tourist brochure. You might as well do away with the entire etymology section if you think it isn't relevant at all. By the way, Indian culture as it exists today is highly syncretic and most Indians don't segregate themselves by their religion. Outsiders, specifically white people, are the ones doing the segregation because for some reason they're particularly adept at it. It's ironic how some people hate the 'Hindu right' for 'alienating Muslims', while at the same time trying to 'other' Muslims by de-linking them from Indianness - which is pretty much what you're doing. It's quite contradictory. I suppose you think Indian Muslims are Persians and/or Arabs, not actually Indian? Perhaps you should focus on your own area of expertise and let people who actually know about India deal with India-related content, because when unacquainted editors enter this arena they cause a lot of unwanted conflict with their relative ignorance. Cheers. Tiger7253 (talk) 11:48, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

See WP:VERIFY: "Wikipedia does not publish original research. Its content is determined by previously published information rather than the beliefs or experiences of its editors. Even if you're sure something is true, it must be verifiable before you can add it". I can find no WP:RELIABLE source which states the Taj Mahal is anything but Persian. If you can find one, then by all means add it to the article. Until then, the policy – not me – forbids it. I would also point you to the MOS:FORLANG guideline which states: "Do not include foreign equivalents in the lead sentence just to show etymology". Firebrace (talk) 15:09, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

@Tiger7253: Request a dispute resolution if you feel that strongly about it. Firebrace (talk) 23:21, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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India link

the article must link to India in the fist sentence. Maria Kappatou (talk) 18:35, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

Per WP:OVERLINK, the names of major geographic locations are not linked. Firebrace (talk) 21:01, 17 June 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 November 2016

Copyright violation removed 39.46.93.227 (talk) 11:34, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

 Not done your proposed text was a copyright violation, and did not add anything that is not already in the article - Arjayay (talk) 11:53, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Name and meaning

The name does not mean Crown of Palaces, but Crown of the Palace. It is hard to understand, why the mentioned author translated this noun the wrong way!

Explanation: Tādj as well as Maḥall are Arabic nouns, and in combination they mean (in Arabic, literally): Crown of a place [of solution]. In Persian context it should be pronounced Tādj-i maḥall meaning Crown of the place; but because the -i is not written this noun is frequently pronounced without that -i. In Indian context of Mughal period the meaning of maḥall was changed into “Palace”, and therefore the name of that princess has to be translated as Crown of the Palace which makes sense.

Maybe there is somebody who would like to correct the translation – I won't because of its reference. Thank you.--Imruz (talk) 17:29, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 December 2016

please accept i want to add an rarest and important history of the great taj mahal...... Chikku19 (talk) 15:56, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not requested a change.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 15:59, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

India issue

There was nothing called India at that time. It should be written as present days India. Sabin lamsal (talk) 02:35, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2017

120.62.176.114 (talk) 17:39, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

built by sai shankar

Not done: as you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 18:07, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Changing reference 46

More recent threats have come from environmental pollution on the banks of Yamuna River including acid rain.

The link[46] provided is not a good one. It doesn't mention Taj Mahal except for the picture.

A better citation is required, may be an article from telegraph.

There's no doubt it is because of the air pollution and environment, acid rain. The main culprit is atmosphere pollution. by an Environment researcher.

Looks far authentic to me.

Sanjukta1995 (talk) 09:54, 17 March 2017 (UTC)Sanjukta1995

Please add "A" between "B" and "C"

A: Hundreds of trees in the garden grow with labels containing individual numbers and scientific names.

B: Elsewhere, the garden is laid out with avenues of trees and fountains.

C: The charbagh garden, a design inspired by Persian gardens, was introduced to India by Babur, the first Mughal emperor.

Seaflowerbee (talk) 08:20, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

 Partly done Inserted shortened phrase into sentence labeled "B" above in the second paragraph of the section Taj_Mahal#Garden. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 17:50, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Thank you very much! Seaflowerbee (talk) 11:00, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

You're quite welcome! Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 14:13, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

References

I've heard a myth that...

There are at least 2 lower floors under there. It's no secret that the actual tomb is in a lower floor and that the sarcophaguses that are shown to tourists (on the ground floor) are fakes. The myth is interesting in that there used to be wooden doors on the river side that lead directly into the basement. In 1972 some guy took a sample from the wooden doors and determined by carbon dating that the building was older than the era of Shah Jahan. The government of India then had the original ancient wooden doors removed and the doorway closed with a brick wall. This suggests that the buildings official origin is obviously false. GMRE (talk) 11:54, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

To me it suggests the doors (if there is any such thing) were reclaimed from an older building and reused in the Taj Mahal. Firebrace (talk) 17:45, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

There's an old photograph of the doors. Anyway, there are also rumors that someone managed to peek in in 1923 and they saw many statues and artworks of Hindu design. There is also a photo of some octagonal shaft that shows windows into at least 4 lower floors, but of course these are only rumors, because for example, there's no proof of where the pictured shaft even is.

Apparently there are many who believe that it's a centuries older Hindu temple and that Shah Jahan basically hijacked it and had the basement floor windows cemented up. And that apparently the modern cover up is done to prevent jealousy in the multicultural nation. GMRE (talk) 17:56, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Fascinating, but this is not a forum for general discussion of the subject. Firebrace (talk) 18:16, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

As of August 2017, this remains an ongoing issue. There have been several court cases, some of which are still open. These facts are not yet in the article, need to be added. Please see these sources:

• Several cases still pending in the Supreme Court and district to decide if it is a Hindu temple, Aug 2017
• Court admits plea claiming Taj a temple, Apil 2015Is Taj Mahal a mausoleum or a Shiva temple? CIC asks govt to clarify
• Taj was a palace of Hindu King, that might have had a Hindu temple inside
• Agra district court will start the hearings from 24 August 2017 to decide if Taj mahal is a Hindu temple
• interview

222.165.9.81 (talk) 22:40, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Per WP:NOW, we can mention this after the court cases have been settled. Firebrace (talk) 22:46, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Firebrace, did you do the rewrite edits of this article? Good job. Balanced. 222.165.9.81 (talk) 22:52, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

I reconfigured the lead in 2016. The rest of the article needs a lot of work, but I don't have time for it. Firebrace (talk) 23:38, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Chances of Vandalism

It is requested to the administrators to make the page at least semi protected. We can watch repeated editing without sources in this page. Since this issue became controversial day by day, sr Wikipedian may protect this page from vandalism. thank you Pinakpani (talk) 16:19, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

Pinakpani - Such requests need to be made at WP:Requests for page protection. not here.
However, we do not protect articles in case there is vandalism, only when there already is repeated vandalism, that cannot be dealt with by other means - e.g. blocking one or two disruptive editors. Looking at the page history I can only see three examples of vandalism in the whole of 2017 - so any request for protection at this point would undoubtedly be refused. - Arjayay (talk) 17:23, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

@Arjayay: Agreed with Arjayay. And even then we make this semi protection from anonymous editors. I don't think we can protect a page from registered users?--Biografer (talk) 17:30, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

Please remove excessive use of redundant higher-order wiki-categories

ATTN: "Confirmed Users", Please edit these 'Out from the article:

1. The article correctly has Mughal architecture as category, which itself is sub-category of higher order categories of "Category:Indian architectural styles", "Category:Islamic architecture", "Category:Iranian architecture", "Category:South Asian architecture". Please remove these.
2. Taj Mahal is not in Pakistan. Pakistan did not even exit then. "Category:Pakistani architectural history" should not be in the article. Please remove it.
3. If anything, Mughal architecture is basically "Rajput architecture" (base) with smattering of "Iranian architecture" (topping). Currently, "Category:Rajput architecture" is not even inserted in the article, which is like baking pizza without the base. However, as per my point-1&2 above, there is no need to have categories for Rajput, Iranian, Muslim and Hindu architecture added to this article as they are the higher order categories of Mughal architecture, hence all these must be removed. Thanks.

202.156.182.84 (talk) 12:34, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 December 2017

I have uploaded a latest picture of Taj Mahal, which should be updated to the Wiki Page of Taj Mahal. Abhiroopbasu (talk) 18:52, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

 Not done - We have lots of pictures of the Taj Mahal, why is yours any better than the others? We need consensus before changing the image.
Assuming you mean this image - it is dated 28 December 2017 so you need to correct your upload before it can be considered - Arjayay (talk) 19:02, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

Taj Mahal

The Taj Mahal (/ˌtɑːdʒ məˈhɑːl, ˌtɑːʒ-/;[3] meaning Crown of the Palace[4]) is an ivory-white marble mausoleum on the south bank of the Yamuna river in the Indian city of Agra. It was commissioned in 1632 by the Mughal emperor, Shah Jahan (reigned from 1628 to 1658), to house the tomb of his favourite wife, Mumtaz Mahal. The tomb is the centrepiece of a 17-hectare (42-acre)[5] complex, which includes a mosque and a guest house, and is set in formal gardens bounded on three sides by a crenellated wall.

Construction of the mausoleum was essentially completed in 1643 but work continued on other phases of the project for another 10 years. The Taj Mahal complex is believed to have been completed in its entirety in 1653 at a cost estimated at the time to be around 32 million rupees, which in 2015 would be approximately 52.8 billion rupees (U.S. $827 million). The construction project employed some 20,000 artisans under the guidance of a board of architects led by the court architect to the emperor, Ustad Ahmad Lahauri.

The Taj Mahal was designated as a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 1983 for being "the jewel of Muslim art in India and one of the universally admired masterpieces of the world's heritage". It is regarded by many as the best example of Mughal architecture and a symbol of India's rich history. The Taj Mahal attracts 7–8 million visitors a year. In 2007, it was declared a winner of the New7Wonders of the World (2000–2007) initiative.

Contents [hide] 1 Inspiration 2 Architecture and design 2.1 Tomb 2.2 Exterior decorations 2.2.1 Interior decoration 2.3 Garden 2.4 Outlying buildings 3 Construction 4 Later days 5 Threats 6 Tourism 7 Myths 8 Gallery 9 See also 10 References 10.1 Notes 10.2 Sources 11 External links — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1902Aarya (talk • contribs) 11:06, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Taj Mahal

The Taj Mahal (/ˌtɑːdʒ məˈhɑːl, ˌtɑːʒ-/;[3] meaning Crown of the Palace[4]) is an ivory-white marble mausoleum on the south bank of the Yamuna river in the Indian city of Agra. It was commissioned in 1632 by the Mughal emperor, Shah Jahan (reigned from 1628 to 1658), to house the tomb of his favourite wife, Mumtaz Mahal. The tomb is the centrepiece of a 17-hectare (42-acre)[5] complex, which includes a mosque and a guest house, and is set in formal gardens bounded on three sides by a crenellated wall.

Construction of the mausoleum was essentially completed in 1643 but work continued on other phases of the project for another 10 years. The Taj Mahal complex is believed to have been completed in its entirety in 1653 at a cost estimated at the time to be around 32 million rupees, which in 2015 would be approximately 52.8 billion rupees (U.S. $827 million). The construction project employed some 20,000 artisans under the guidance of a board of architects led by the court architect to the emperor, Ustad Ahmad Lahauri.

The Taj Mahal was designated as a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 1983 for being "the jewel of Muslim art in India and one of the universally admired masterpieces of the world's heritage". It is regarded by many as the best example of Mughal architecture and a symbol of India's rich history. The Taj Mahal attracts 7–8 million visitors a year. In 2007, it was declared a winner of the New7Wonders of the World (2000–2007) initiative.

Contents [hide] 1 Inspiration 2 Architecture and design 2.1 Tomb 2.2 Exterior decorations 2.2.1 Interior decoration 2.3 Garden 2.4 Outlying buildings 3 Construction 4 Later days 5 Threats 6 Tourism 7 Myths 8 Gallery 9 See also 10 References 10.1 Notes 10.2 Sources 11 External links

Taj Mahal

The Taj Mahal (/ˌtɑːdʒ məˈhɑːl, ˌtɑːʒ-/;[3] meaning Crown of the Palace[4]) is an ivory-white marble mausoleum on the south bank of the Yamuna river in the Indian city of Agra. It was commissioned in 1632 by the Mughal emperor, Shah Jahan (reigned from 1628 to 1658), to house the tomb of his favourite wife, Mumtaz Mahal. The tomb is the centrepiece of a 17-hectare (42-acre)[5] complex, which includes a mosque and a guest house, and is set in formal gardens bounded on three sides by a crenellated wall.

Construction of the mausoleum was essentially completed in 1643 but work continued on other phases of the project for another 10 years. The Taj Mahal complex is believed to have been completed in its entirety in 1653 at a cost estimated at the time to be around 32 million rupees, which in 2015 would be approximately 52.8 billion rupees (U.S. $827 million). The construction project employed some 20,000 artisans under the guidance of a board of architects led by the court architect to the emperor, Ustad Ahmad Lahauri.

The Taj Mahal was designated as a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 1983 for being "the jewel of Muslim art in India and one of the universally admired masterpieces of the world's heritage". It is regarded by many as the best example of Mughal architecture and a symbol of India's rich history. The Taj Mahal attracts 7–8 million visitors a year. In 2007, it was declared a winner of the New7Wonders of the World (2000–2007) initiative.

Contents [hide] 1 Inspiration 2 Architecture and design 2.1 Tomb 2.2 Exterior decorations 2.2.1 Interior decoration 2.3 Garden 2.4 Outlying buildings 3 Construction 4 Later days 5 Threats 6 Tourism 7 Myths 8 Gallery 9 See also 10 References 10.1 Notes 10.2 Sources 11 External links — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1902Aarya (talk • contribs) 11:08, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Taj Mahal

Location Agra, Uttar Pradesh, India Coordinates 27°10′30″N 78°02′31″ECoordinates: 27°10′30″N 78°02′31″E Height 73 m (240 ft) Built 1632–1653[1] Architect Ustad Ahmad Lahauri Architectural style(s) Mughal architecture Visitors 7–8 million[2] (in 2014) Website www.tajmahal.gov.in Taj Mahal is located in India Taj Mahal Location of Agra within India UNESCO World Heritage Site Criteria Cultural: i Reference 252 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1902Aarya (talk • contribs) 11:11, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

No mention of slave labor

Just curious why there is no mention of slave labor being used? It says "The construction project employed some 20,000 artisans" but browsing online i keep reading it was more like 20,000 slaves instead of employees.

FAC

Hi all, anyone interested in joining me to put a star on the left corner of the article? The Herald (Benison) (talk) 01:37, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

@Atsme and Yashthepunisher:..What do you guys say since we three are the top three active users in terms of authorship tag contributed to this page? The Herald (Benison) (talk) 22:03, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

I'm game!! I need time to review it but I think the first thing we should do is request a peer review. ^{Atsme✍🏻📧} 22:05, 15 November 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, but I mostly work on cinema related articles. All the best though, if you two wish to take it to FAC. I will be happy to provide my comments. Yashthepunisher (talk) 05:14, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Just had a look in Peer review page and they have a huge backlog. So I expect at least a two month for this article to go through there. Shall we risk it or prep it up really good that we can go directly to FAC without a review? The Herald (Benison) (talk) 09:38, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Benison, get us on the list and wait for peer review - the bar has been raised at FAC (as I've recently discovered) - the reviewers are top notch and don't cut any slack - so prepping needs to bring the article as close to flawless as we can get it. One of the key points will be consistency in the citations so if you have time, that would be a good place to start. I'm working on some dog articles right now, and will try to squeeze a review in for this article as well. ^{Atsme✍🏻📧} 17:26, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request

64.30.111.49 (talk) 23:23, 16 December 2018 (UTC) Talk about a brief review about it

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. DannyS712 (talk) 23:41, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Proposed change to references format

In this article's current Peer Review, a highly experienced and respected editor wrote, "If FAC is the ultimate goal, I would suggest significant attention on the references. Citations should be complete and consistently formatted, and at the moment we're a ways off from that."

I'll happily fix all the references etc. if I can convert them all to my preferred format (see Bengal famine of 1943 for example).  ♦ Lingzhi2 (talk) 12:39, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

• DONE. I had to delete a couple dead references and some copyvio. It isn't 100% perfect (I have real life things to do), but it's 97 or 98% better. ♦ Lingzhi2 (talk) 01:16, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Verses of the Quran

Please describe with detail the verses of the Quran that are displayed by the Taj Mahal. Fjgdh5 (talk)/~ —Preceding undated comment added 17:39, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Please help explain what the verses of the Quran that are displayed by the Taj Mahal meant to the sovereignty of the Mughal Empire Fjgdh5 (talk)/~ —Preceding undated comment added 17:43, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

"Taj Mahal"

The source mentions the meaning of Taj Mahal as "crown of the palace" and "mahal" does not mean palace in Arabic, but it does in Urdu, the official language of the Mughal Empire. Please see Mughal Empire wikipedia page for more information. Hammad.511234 (talk) 02:08, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

"An area ... was excavated, and levelled at 50 metres above riverbank."

How could that be? The minarets are 40 m. Look at any of the pictures that show the river in the foreground. There is no way the area could be 50 m above the river, or even riverbank, when the minarets add 40 more meters. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.70.3.91 (talk) 07:24, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

A Frenchman and an Italian designed the Taj Mahal

Famed Historian Will Durant says three artists designed the Taj Mahal, the Frenchman Austin de Bordeaux, an Italian, and a Persian. This excellent source must be included in this Wikipedia article. See Section 3 here: https://books.google.com/books?id=ru4LPyMAxxkC&pg=PT559&lpg=PT559&dq=will++durant++taj++mahal&source=bl&ots=TegIJWOk1G&sig=ACfU3U3FHcX3OqyZt_dlaXLHeAyAE8ftfA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwioo_-Vy-vnAhWtnOAKHbJfBho4FBDoATAAegQICRAB#v=onepage&q=will%20%20durant%20%20taj%20%20mahal&f=false

Durant was born in 1885 - this idea has long been discredited. Johnbod (talk) 04:15, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

It was never discredited. Will Durant's book came out in 1935 and was never discredited by anything since. It belongs here in Wikipedia. 47.201.178.246 (talk) 05:23, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Durant's book is a standard reference and has never been discredited. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_of_Civilization#I._Our_Oriental_Heritage_(1935) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.201.178.246 (talk) 18:29, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Durant per se has not been discredited. But the idea that de Bordeaux designed the Taj Mahal has indeed been widely discredited, attributed to a translation error by William Henry Sleeman in his Rambles and Recollections of an Indian Official (1898). --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇} 18:45, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Durant was a popularizing non-specialist a very long time ago (mostly pre-WW2), and is now never an ideal source. He was never "a standard reference" anywhere academic, & the majority of libraries will have removed him long ago. Johnbod (talk) 19:02, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia devotes a very great deal of attention to Durant's writings. Where is a Source that a translation error discredited Durant ? Or is that just you talking ? 47.201.178.246 (talk) 19:40, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Afaik, it wasn't especially Durant's claim, but one often made back in the 1930s and before. You won't find it in modern WP:RS, which is enough for me. --jpgordon may know more. I've seen sources from 40-60 years ago mentioning it was wrong, but now it's water under the bridge. If wp does use Durant a lot as a source (can't say I've seen it), then we shouldn't. This recent book has more, as does Origins and architecture of the Taj Mahal. The "Persian" is Ustad Ahmad Lahori, who we mention. According to Wikiedia he was born in Badakhshan, a region now comprising parts of northeastern Afghanistan, eastern Tajikistan, and the Tashkurgan county in China. Johnbod (talk) 20:00, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Ustad Ahmad Lahori is where the confusion came from; Sleeman appears to have conflated Ustad with Ustan (which he assumed referred to Austin). --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇} 21:49, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia sources Durant profusely, just look at all this devoted space here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_of_Civilization 47.201.178.246 (talk) 20:12, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

That's as a subject, not a source. The "reception" section should cover the critiques by professional historians that no doubt exist. Johnbod (talk) 20:14, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Durant is widely read look at all this availability. He must not be censored here in this wikipedia article. See https://www.amazon.com/Will-Durant/e/B00N3MKTAI%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share 47.201.178.246 (talk) 20:19, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

It's possible you mean "censored", though it's hard to say; regardless, nobody is trying to "censor" Durant. He wasn't the one who came up with the idea; the aforementioned Sleeman book appears to be the origin of the story. We don't have to use something we know is wrong just because the source is mostly right. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇} 21:49, 25 February 2020

Durant is 100% correct and an excellent source which Wikipedia must accept. He is a long time known historian and was never proven wrong on this point. You are simply wanting to censor him. 47.201.178.246 (talk) 02:24, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

OK, so, if we wanted to bring this into the article, it would read like this: "Historian Will Durant, apparently following Sleeman's book, stated that the Taj Mahal was designed by Bordeaux. Later historians have countered this claim, pointing to an inaccurate transcription of blah blah blah." Or we could just omit the error. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇} 03:48, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Yes, and it would belong in Origins and architecture of the Taj Mahal, not here. I wouldn't object to a mention there, making it clear it is wrong, and not linking it to Durant in particular. Johnbod (talk) 03:54, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Yes do add Durant's very pertinent source here into Wikipedia. You must put a good source that proves Durant wrong, or let it stand without criticism. I doubt there is any good source that definitively proves Durant wrong. 47.201.178.246 (talk) 15:06, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Why would we add any 85-year-old fringe theory when there are so mant more recent historians who all agree that it simply is not the case?IdreamofJeanie (talk) 17:05, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

I think we can finish the conversation here. If anywhere, it can be continued at Talk:Origins and architecture of the Taj Mahal; we're not going to put an inaccurate historical conclusion in here just because the conclusion is held by Durant. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇} 18:29, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

There was more than one architect on the project, it was a whole staff. Durant reveals some of those involved. Durant is not contradicted by anyone, and should be included here.47.201.178.246 (talk) 18:36, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

There is clear WP:CONSENSUS against doing so, & it won't happen. Please find something else to agitate about. Johnbod (talk) 18:40, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Bravo, Just brush Will Durant under the rug. Durant is providing important supplementary information and it should be included in Wikipedia.47.201.178.246 (talk) 18:44, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Folks commenting in this section may want to look at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Licorne - MrOllie (talk) 03:02, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Quackblocked. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇} 04:08, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Will Durant's reference should be inserted into the last paragraph of the Myths section of this wikipedia article, please do so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.86.0.78 (talk) 21:15, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

Taj Mahal - Let to truth be told

Taj Mahal was built by Shah Jahan for his beloved wife Mumtaz Mahal but she was not his only wife. If he loved his wife so much, he wouldn't have laboured her with 14 children just by herself so much that she could bear it no more. This is despite having other wives, only he knows how many children they had. After his so called beloved wife died, he married her sister. Soon after Taj Mahal was built, he was deposed by his own son and was put under house arrest where he could only see Taj Mahal from a distance, until the end of his life. There is no mention of who the artisans were. They were all Hindus who were recruited to carve the marble which was brought 100s of mile from Rajasthan. All done by the Hindus who were great at arts but all artisans have had their fingers chopped off after the work completed so that they cannot repeat this art work. (As it someone else was going to spend so much money and effort to do it). Such was the cruelty in which Taj Mahal was built. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.67.54.126 (talk) 07:32, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

This reading of Shah Jahan and Mumtaz Mahal is tendentious, and story about the artisans is an urban legend. None of it belongs in the article. Lagrange613 15:24, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

What is it made out of?

It is made out of white marble. It is of the largest constructions made out of marble. Lots of other materials are used inside the structure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.207.93.95 (talk) 15:47, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 June 2020

Tajmahal-

www.newshelp.in/mystery-of-tajmahal-in-hindi/

2409:4063:2286:6594:4C75:7F6:D932:9B74 (talk) 16:33, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

please specify edit requested in formoat "please change X to Y"

Semi-protected edit request on 20 August 2020

MD. Nafis Bhuiyan (talk) 04:18, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

i want to be a registered editor

 Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone will add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. HeartGlow ^(talk) 04:37, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

One sentence shouldn't be there in CONTROVERSY SECTON

It is a bad faith sentence and its just a statement that means some person just said something it really starts with "he stated" Its not needed at all because its a bad faith comment and I admit that erasing out entire controversy section was totally wrong, I only meant to take out that one sentence, so yeah here I give my objective appeal. Also he didnt took that to court he just told to a news reporter so it has no legal meaning, That is why I removed the sentence.

Swtadi143 (talk) 05:25, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 December 2020

the book hamid lahori has written is padshahnama not badshanama, please correct 49.37.223.182 (talk) 05:59, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Ah yes, thanks. Done that. IdreamofJeanie (talk) 06:16, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

==

The Huēy Tlahtoāni (talk) 14:53, 3 January 2021 (UTC)The Huēy Tlahtoāni ==

The phrase "The Tāj Maḥal complex is believed to have been completed in its entirety in 1653 at a cost estimated at the time to be around 32 million rupees, which in 2020 would be approximately 70 billion  indian rupees (about U.S. $916 million)." isn't correct because 70 billion rupies are 951.878.873,46 million U.S. $ (last update: 01/01/2021 23:59 UTC+1):it should be changed.

 Done PratyyaG · Talk 02:56, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Persian name in the lead

It is standard in Wikipedia articles to include alternative/original names in the article lead per MOS:LEADALT.

The name Taj Mahal comes from Persian, the mausoleum was built during the persophone Mughal dynasty, and it was built for a Persian woman, Mumtaz Mahal. "Taj Mahal," written in Perso - Arabic script (تاج محل), should be included in the lead. إيان (talk) 06:43, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

• IdreamofJeanie, you may make your argument here. إيان (talk) 06:44, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Just to clarify, IdreamofJeanie removed the Persian name arguing: "Indian building, no reason to give persian [sic] name," to which I responded: "The name Taj Mahal comes from Persian, it was built during the persophone Mughal Dynasty, and it was built for a Persian woman, Mumtaz Mahal. The fact that the building lies in the modern nation-state of India does not change any of this." إيان (talk) 10:40, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

• Arjayay, you claimed: "WP:NOINDICSCRIPT still covers persian [sic]."

Persian is not an Indic script, and the policy makes no mention of Persian. WP:NOINDICSCRIPT does not apply to "تاج محل in the lead. إيان (talk) 10:40, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

I believe that this article was one of those that led to the early development of WP:NOINDICSCRIPT, because of the large number of different scripts that were being added.
I don't know whether there has been a specific discussion of Persian with regard to WP:NOINDICSCRIPT, or not, but I recall a discussion about whether Arabic should be included under WP:NOINDICSCRIPT, and seem to recall that it was agreed that it should cover Arabic and other scripts, but I can't find that discussion.
The problem with having any "non-roman" script in the lead, or infobox, is that it invites the mass addition of other scripts, and arguments about how a non-local script is allowed, whereas local scripts are not. I am. therefore, opposed to the inclusion of Persian, or any other scripts. - Arjayay (talk) 10:54, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Perso - Arabic script is not mentioned in the policy, and neither is this article. The articles on Shah Jahan and Mumtaz Mahal both include their Persian names in the lead. Perso-Arabic script is clearly directly relevant to the topic—the building is even covered with it. إيان (talk) 11:50, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Since the Persian script was used in India, and continues to be used, it certainly qualifies as an "INDICSCRIPT". Ethnic branding and the attendant disputes are precisely the reason for the NOINDICSCRIPT policy. So, in short, NO. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 12:11, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Kautilya3, thank you for the ARBIPA sanctions alert. Could you please provide a WP:RELIABLE source for your claim that Perso-Arabic script is an "Indic script"? Also, why is including the original name "ethnic branding" on this article and not on the articles of Shah Jahan and Mumtaz Mahal? It is clearly useful and relevant to provide the Persian name, and not doing so represents a deficiency in the article. إيان (talk) 18:44, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

In the context of the policy/consensus you have been referred to, all scripts used in India are "Indic scripts". We tend to overlook them in contexts where foreign names/words appear, but they can also be removed if people start ethnic bandwagoning. "Taj Mahal" is perfectly well-understood in the English language, and no other scripts are necessary. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 18:57, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Kautilya3, could you please refer to where in the policy "Indic scripts" has been defined as you have described? Could you also please substantiate how including the native name of the subject of the article in the lead amounts to "ethnic bandwagoning"? إيان (talk) 20:46, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Do you not realise that this is EXACTLY the kind of argument that WP:NOINDICSCRIPT is meant to prevent? IdreamofJeanie (talk) 07:21, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 March 2021

Change the language in the video to English. Since the language is not alien to INDIA where this Monument is located Pienadciea (talk) 10:01, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: there are English subtitles on the video. If you're asking for the video to have English narration in the audio, that's not really a request an editor can fill – that's just how the video is, unless you have a different one to suggest. Volteer1 (talk) 10:41, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Any logical reason why the Urdu has been used to title Taj Mahal?

Is this is a joke? Urdu did not exist in 16th century, why is it used? use Persian instead, if you're going to use a Hindustani language then use Hindi too, since Urdu is not used in India! Sagnique (talk) 20:37, 19 December 2019 (UTC) pankaj gohel — Preceding unsigned comment added by 111.235.74.16 (talk) 07:23, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

"Urdu is not used in India"... LOL, Urdu is one of the many official languages of India, and is very much used in India. --50.30.178.10 (talk) 16:13, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 June 2021

Please remove wrong map of india 117.248.211.119 (talk) 11:57, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 14:43, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

Lots of press about an attempt to get rooms open to prove it's a Hindu temple

Eg[4]. So expect edits about this. Doug Weller talk 14:44, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 May 2022

Recently, controversy for Taj Mahal by the right extreme leader of ruling Government of India, Minister of Parliament Divya Kumari claims land on which Taj Mahal built was actually a shiv mandir. But by the time, Archaeological survey of India had released a video to dismissed the claims. Shivamsharma 1998 (talk) 13:52, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:29, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

I want to add in controversy that was recently in news Shivamsharma 1998 (talk) 17:40, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Shivamsharma 1998 What exact wording are you asking to be added to the article, and what reliable sources are you citing to support your proposed addition? - Arjayay (talk) 17:44, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

References

Closed Rooms

We need to add pictures released by ASI of the closed rooms. https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/pics-of-taj-mahal-rooms-emerge-amid-row-over-locked-doors-2982909 EarthDragon (talk) 08:43, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

@EarthDragon: I've removed these as I see no evidence that they are free to use, and I've nominated them for deletion. I can see no reason whatsover to use such boring photos about maintenance work. Doug Weller talk 10:53, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

The valuation in USD and INR needs to be updated.

The valuation of the Taj Mahal is based on 1 USD = 70 INR. It needs to be updated to the current year or the year in which 1 USD was equivalent to 70 INR needs to be added. Abmprofessioknal (talk) 06:19, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 July 2022

Firstly add that the wife who was buried there i.e. Mumtaj begam and her surname was not Mahal ,and Taj Mahal consisnt of flower formed in it "Kamal" to be more precise on every large window shaped design on sides of Taj Mahal and the muslims don't consider flower designs and Taj Mahal was not "built" by Mughal emperor ,it was just reconstructed to remove the Hindu religion signs from it . The Mughal emperor surely bought the land and documents also states that but he mentions in his notes that " i have found a perfect place to bury mumtaj which consists of a tomb on it". So it is clear from those documents that he didn't build it but reconstructed it from tajyo Mahal to the now known thing. Please consider it and i did some digging for it and these are not just things which am spouting out . Enlightened 001 (talk) 10:32, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:40, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Persian script

Non Latin Scripts are prohibited on Wikipedia on India related articles as per WP:INDICSCRIPT. Persian script is an example of non Latin script. This is to prevent confusion. For example, various languages were spoken among the Mughal nobility (Persian, Hindavi, Urdu, originally Chagatai Turkic) so it would be confusion to add all of them. Other Mughal monuments such as Red Fort, Humayun's Tomb and Jama Masjid contain non Latin scripts.

Also Persian was replaced by English as a co-official language in the Indian Subcontinent. In modem times no one refers to the Taj Mahal by its Persian script. This is like translating Oxford University to French since it was built by the French speaking House of Normandy or Chichen Itza into Mayan.

User23445 (talk) 16:48, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

"Tarch Maharl" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Tarch Maharl and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 August 20#Tarch Maharl until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. MB 21:41, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 September 2022

Please change the tourism section to exclude Mark Zuckerberg. He is not a dignitary and does not belong on the list of people mentioned in that section. 205.170.235.245 (talk) 09:39, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

 Done --Ferien (talk) 17:07, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

spelling

I came across a misspelling in the first paragraph (for context by the Mughal emperor Shah Jahan 1628 to house the tomb of his favourite wife) the word favorite is spelled wrong P.S. the article was very interesting (: Dunshee13 (talk) 02:26, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

@Dunshee13: Thanks for the note and the kind comment about the article. About the spelling "error": the article is written in Indian English, which mostly follows the spelling conventions of British English (rather than American English), in which the word is indeed spelled as favourite. You can read more about the history of this particular difference, tracing back to Noah Webster, at American and British English spelling differences#Latin-derived spellings (often through Romance). Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 02:38, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Edit request 31 October 2022

controversial but less-known theory suggests that the Taj Mahal marked the site of a Hindu temple dedicated to Shiva in the form of a lingam. When Shah Jahan arrived at the site upon Mumtaz's death, he demolished the temple and built the Taj Mahal entirely with Muslim symbols. The actual tomb of Mumtaz never contained her body but instead it contained the lingam that was at the temple site and other idols and Hindu symbols of the temple were hidden and locked in a vault under the Taj Mah

49.206.41.58 (talk) 13:52, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Nothing will be added to the article without citation to an appropriate reliable source. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:58, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: See above comment Terasail^[✉️] 14:14, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

 Note: I moved the main text out of the title and into the body of the section to make it more readable and less confusing. Terasail^[✉️] 14:17, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

please provide reliable sources until then this is just folklore, and therefore does not belong in this article SKAG123 (talk) 21:08, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Visit to taj mahal

Actually many kids come to Wikipedia.org in the hope of getting essay material but the don't get what they have came for so please. 43.251.171.170 (talk) 10:48, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

"Please" what? As explained at Wikipedia:Do your own homework we are not here to do a pupils schoolwork or homework. Good teachers want pupils to figure out the answer, and find out how to find the answer. - Arjayay (talk) 11:36, 12 February 2023 (UTC)