Talk:Taipei/Archive 3

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Edit request

Someone restore the original wording of the lead paragraph and formatting of the infobox that was changed by Fcsong throughout these edits without consensus.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 14:39, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

No. When a pile of people are edit-warring, it's completely inappropriate to pick one version as a restore point. Fcsong's version doesn't have consensus, but yours doesn't, and the same is true of the versions produced by the other three people's versions — that's why protection is necessary. You need to gain consensus here at this talk page for such an edit. Nyttend (talk) 14:49, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Fcsong performed more of the same nationalistic vandalism that originally led to this article's semi-protection (see [1] and [2]). He replaced "Taiwan" with "Republic of China" in multiple locations. Metal.lunchbox's version is better than what I had ended up producing. The infobox should use Taiwan instead of Republic of China, as well as the lede, considering that is the current consensus as to what the article on the nation in question is titled. And the version I was producing was to restore the version prior to the IP's edits weeks ago. The fact that I spent most of the day battling an even more stubborn and nationalist vandal should not be considered as part of a larger issue.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 14:53, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Read WP:PREFER: "Pages that are protected because of content disputes should not be edited except to make changes which are uncontroversial or for which there is clear consensus". {{editprotected}} may only be used for implementing simple fixes or consensus decisions, and as no discussion has happened here, consensus obviously doesn't exist. Please stop filing editprotected requests, unless of course you find simple problems such as spelling mistakes. Nyttend (talk) 14:58, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

It is uncontroversial. It's restoring the wording of the article prior to all of the other edit warring. Or at least a version prior to a new spate of vandalism that went undetected because no one noticed it until now.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 15:00, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Given the existence of the edit war, it is plainly controversial. This is your final wording for abusing this process; if you continue, you will be blocked for continued abuse. Nyttend (talk) 15:03, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

I spent hours today reverting vandalism and got no help. So now when I find more vandalism that wasn't reverted because it was in a window when I wasn't here and it's by another party that makes it an edit war? Fcsong's edits are harmful to the project and he's been making these edits many times in the past. The version that Metal.lunchbox produced is better than anything else that was produced during the brouhaha. Not to mention this talk page already speaks of a consensus that uses "Taiwan" and "Republic of China" in the format that Metal.lunchbox ended up contributing.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 15:12, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

It wasn't vandalism any more than yours was, and if we can say that he's harming the project, we might equally say that you're harming the project: it's just the opposite point of view. Nyttend (talk) 15:17, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

But this topic has been discussed death already years ago. The appearance of someone who had a boner for Sun Yat-sen should not have led the article to its current state after another editor made edits in a similar vein, considering Fcsong has been making nationalist edits to replace "Taiwan" with "Republic of China" across the project for months now.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 15:18, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

On further examination, this was another edit that happened, so perhaps the lede and infobox should use that format.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 15:26, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

[edit conflict] There has been a consensus which grew out of Talk:Taiwan/Archive 20 and various other discussions. If a few editors (or possibly one with some socks) come along to suddenly insist on a new version, that doesn't establish a new consensus, even if a well-meaning editor involves himself in a pointless edit-war. The number of versions makes it confusing enough that going back to the right "stable" version is a silly task. That means we have to do a little talking. It seems to have been established that we will refer to modern taiwan (ROC) as "Taiwan" and explain that the country is officially the "Republic of China" on WP. There's not reason for this article to be any different. That much is established, Am I right? My recommendation is to revert changes to my most recent edit, which I believe most completely represents consensus so far. What do you say? - Metal lunchbox ^(talk) 15:47, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes, ths is most reasonable. Fcsong seems to be on a mission to subvert the prior consensus of the titling of Taiwan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). Also he's decided that this is "commonly known as the capital" rather than it being the capital. It's almost as if he's suggesting the ROC's true capital is still Beijing.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 15:51, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Reopening the request now that another editor has come and said that the version I suggested is useful, Hilo has been saying similar things on Nyttend's talk page, and Fcsong has since been indefinitely blocked for POV pushing vandalism across the project. This is restoring the article to a state similar to what has been determined to be stable throughout years of discussion and without the intervention of people with an agenda to push that Taiwan should be referred to by its formal name at all times and that anyone who gets in their way is a hacker working for the Chinese army.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 22:02, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it's time for Admins to actually protect both this article and those editors who are trying to do that. The massive shitfight of two years ago must not be repeated here. Nothing has changed in world politics that should allow it to. Nyttend, rather than attacking Ryulong and blaming him for any of the problems here, you should be supporting him and commending him for trying to protect this article against some very obsessed editors trying to change a well established consensus. Attack those really causing the problems here. HiLo48 (talk) 23:09, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

I have answered the editprotected request several times already, and since you're not listening, let me say it again for the last time: any more times will result in rejection with no response. {{editprotected}} is only for noncontroversial situations, and the existence of an editwar demonstrates that the situation is controversial. We do not edit a protected article to support the position of one side in an editwar, and when the war involves adding something versus not adding it, reverting to the pre-war version would definitely support one side, so I must not do that either. You must establish a consensus at this talk page here, because repeatedly attempting to get admins to ignore the protection policy is most definitely problematic. Nyttend (talk) 23:22, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

You're the one who is not listening. This edit war will not be resolved here. It wasn't fought here in the first place. What WAS in this article was a result of a consensus elsewhere. Another reason it won't be resolved here is that the new wave of edit warriors is not listening either. They have dogma on their side. If what you are saying really is in line with policy, I am even further convinced that our polices are wrong. If you as an Admin cannot see that, it's just more evidence to me that our Admin system is broken. HiLo48 (talk) 23:31, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Then unprotect the article because it's solved nothing now that the guy I was reverting for hours yesterday is back on another IP he used to disrupt this page in the past week.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 03:56, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

User:Nyttend is right, while the comments here and previous discussions would appear to show some consensus about the matter, it would be improper for an admin to settle a conflict by siding with one user simply because that used requested directly. I suggest we settle this matter with a more formal discussion, asking a direct and specific content question and see if the community supports us. The rfc above and the recent edit war suggest that whether this page should use the name "Taiwan" to refer the country isn't a settled matter. It should be but it isn't. Let's settle it, so that instead of arguing in the edit summaries we can direct editors to a clear consensus established here, keep things consistent and move on. Or we could wait for edit-protection to expire and cross our fingers. - Metal lunchbox ^(talk) 04:45, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

The consensus that should apply here is at Talk:Taiwan/Archive 20. It was achieved after an agonising and very difficult process. It would be wrong for this article to establish a different consensus. That would make Wikipedia look stupidly inconsistent. This IS a settled matter. Nothing in global politics has changed in any way that could affect that earlier consensus. That some (how many really?) "new" accounts and IPs are fighting the earlier consensus proves nothing apart from their disruptive and unacceptable behaviour. Good faith editors would not be simply regurgitating the same old arguments as were presented two years ago. Please don't waste the time of good editors on a completely unnecessary process. HiLo48 (talk) 05:00, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Indeed. The actions of one guy who is blinded by his devotion to the KMT is not reason enough to have previous discussions completely ignored.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 05:04, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Delete names mess from intro sentence

Let's change the opening sentence from Taipei, officially known as Taipei City (/ˌtaɪˈpeɪ/; Chinese: 臺北市 or 台北市; pinyin: Táiběi Shì; Pe̍h-ōe-jī: Tâi-pak Chhī),

to Taipei (/ˌtaɪˈpeɪ/), officially known as Taipei City,

There's a pretty complete Chinese name box that makes the different names much more clear than including them in the intro sentence, since it includes far more examples then we could put in the lede, and it makes the intro sentence much easier to read. This is common on China-related articles. While I like having the Chinese name in the lede, there's enough transcriptions included that it's become unwieldy, see MOS:CHINESE#Introductory sentences. - Metal lunchbox ^(talk) 16:12, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

I think that the current format is all right, although the IPA should be moved to be next to "Taipei" rather than after "Taipei City".—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 16:14, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

I don't see how excluding Taiwanese (Mandarin) and Hokkien (Southern-Min) from the name would be helpful at all, in fact it would be counter-productive and goes against the guidelines of other Chinese cities, and since both the name and the I.P.A. are "unphonetic" (though this is the English pronunciation which also pronounces P'ek'ing as Peking and Nank'ing as Nanking) so the Hanyu-Pinyin romanization is relevant, though it could use some Wade-Giles (I can't believe I just wrote that *shivers*) as to the origin of the name Taipei and that it's factually just a postal map spelling of Taip'ei.

Sincerely, --Namlong618 (talk) 08:51, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Ho Chi Minh City as a sister city

In 1968, Taipei was made a sister city with Saigon. After 1975, when the communists took over Saigon and renamed it Ho Chi Minh City, there were no diplomatic relations between the two entities until the 1990s. Currently, HCMC does not list Taipei as one of its sister cities [3] while Taipei's website[4] did mention HCMC but did not list it. DHN (talk) 01:09, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Taiwan (Officially the Republic of China)

The phrase "Taipei is the capital of Taiwan (officially the Republic of China)" is grammatically weird without any bolding/italic/remarks for the words "Republic of China". Some sort of change should be done. For instance "Taiwan (officially the Republic of China)" or "Taiwan (Republic of China)", "Republic of China (Taiwan)" or just "Taiwan". Wikiphenim (talk) 14:08, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

It's indeed wrong as the actual capital of Taiwan is Choong-Hsing, and Tai-P'ei is not located in the Taiwan province it's a municipality with a special status, it would be like claiming that Choong-Ch'ing belongs to Szechwan in the Mainland, though one might refer to WP:COMMONNAME there are 2 entities called "Taiwan", you have China and China's largest province which excludes most major cities of the island of Taiwan (which is also a distinct entity), renaming "China" to "Taiwan' is problematic as there still is a Taiwan province.

Sincerely, --Namlong618 (talk) 08:47, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

The Republic of China has adopted Pinyin as the official romanization in 2009. Your stubborn use of old transcriptions denotes political messages. Please learn that many countries have different capitals and seats of government. Taibei is the capital, Zhongxing is the seat of government. These are two different things. And people can only laugh at a foreigner who thinks that he knows what the "real China" is. So you are not neutral. Your page uses Vietnamese names for Chinese things, which makes you even less authentic. You don't even use one Chinese dialect consistently. Then you have a userbox saying "This user is a Sinophile", but the picture shows the National Emblem of the Communists. --2.245.242.24 (talk) 17:49, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

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Crime

Unlike other cities, no #crime section! Jidanni (talk) 13:33, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

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臺 vs. 台 and Tongyong Pinyin vs. Hanyu Pinyin

Please do not pretend that the character 台 is not used in Taiwan, and do not replace every instance of 台 with 臺. 台 developed as a "Traditional Chinese" character centuries ago, long before the PRC-led simplification in the 1950s, and is still widely used in Taiwan today. This blog describes the background:

The character 湾 much like 台 has actually been in use since the Song and Yuan Dynasties, and [both] are part of a Simplified character group known as the 宋元以來俗字, a group of nonstandard characters, or a demotic writing system used by the common people of the time.

In the Chinese infobox (the section that begins with {{Chinese|):

• The "s=" parameter is specifically for Simplified Chinese. Do not change the value to Traditional. For example:

|s=台北市|

• The "kanji=" parameter is specifically for Japanese text. Japan doesn't use 臺, so please leave 台 as is:

|kanji=台北市|kana=たいほくし|romaji=Taihoku shi

• The "p=" parameter is specifically for Hanyu Pinyin. Please do not change it to Tongyong Pinyin. Note that the "tp=" parameter is specifically for Tongyong Pinyin. See the template usage instructions. For example:

|p=Táiběi Shì|tp=Táiběi Shìh|

Phlar (talk) 23:08, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

It seems that our friend 209.66.197.28 (talk) still doesn't believe that people in Taiwan really do use the character 台. How about some Google search data, which shows that "台灣" is at least as prevalent as "臺灣" in both government websites and the Taiwan web domain as a whole?

Domain	台灣 hit count	臺灣 hit count	Ratio
.tw (all Taiwan)	30.4 million	25.8 million	6:5
.gov.tw (Taiwan gov't sites)	7.8 million	7.3 million	1:1

Phlar (talk) 23:26, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Here's a relevant Liberty Times article from 2010...

• discussing the fact that both variants are used in Taiwan society,
• describing the Ministry of Education's decision to standardize on 臺 in official textbooks (教科書將統一用「臺」),
• declaring that "points will not be deducted for the use of 台 on test papers" (考試寫「台」不會扣分", and
• noting that 台 is an official "variant character" (「台」是「臺」的異體字".

Phlar (talk) 00:44, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

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Too much photos here in my opinion

On a rough count there's about 60 photos in this article alone, is this considered excessive? Wishva de Silva (talk) 06:13, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

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Greater China vs. Chinese speaking world

In the 3rd paragraph of the lead, I'm reverting Chinese-speaking world to Greater China in this sentence:

Taipei is the political, economic, educational, and cultural center of Taiwan island, and one of the major hubs of Chinese-speaking world Greater China.

According to Greater China, "Greater China... is a term used to refer to Mainland China, Hong Kong, Macau and Taiwan." "Chinese-speaking world" (which redirects to Sinophone) by contrast can mean specifically "the overseas Chinese regions of diaspora outside of Greater China" (emphasis added). As such, "Greater China" is the better term for this context. Phlar (talk) 21:06, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Bandera de la Provincia Distrito Nacional.png

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A demonym should be added to the table

Hello, there is a wrong photo on the information field, the bottommost photo of the clockwise photos is the National Taiwan Museum instead of the Palace Museum — Preceding unsigned comment added by A0409w (talk • contribs) 14:24, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

A demonym is missing from the table. I'd say, it's fairly significant. Is it Taipeian?--Adûnâi (talk) 17:23, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

I've seen "Taipeinese" (like Shanghainese and Hebeinese), "Taipeiren" (based on the Chinese demonym 台北人; Táiběi rén, and "Taipeier" (like Beijinger) but none of these seem to have gained wide-spread acceptance. "Taipeier" gets the most Google hits at a paltry 52k and did show up in The China Post in 2016. I don't think there is a widely accepted English demonym for Taipei. Phlar (talk) 20:29, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 March 2021

TheWikiPie (talk) 17:08, 1 March 2021 (UTC) I want to add an image of Taipei Industrial Sector

Not done: Your request consists only of a vague request to add, update, modify, or improve an image, or is a request to include an image that is hosted on an external site. If you want an image changed, you must identify a specific image that has already been uploaded to Wikipedia or Wikimedia Commons. Please note that any image used on any Wikipedia article must comply with the Wikipedia image use policy, particularly where copyright is concerned. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 17:16, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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• Taipei skyline cityscape at night with full moon.jpg

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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• U.S. President Eisenhower visited TAIWAN 美國總統艾森豪於1960年6月訪問臺灣台北時與蔣中正總統-2.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 00:23, 5 June 2022 (UTC)