Talk:TSJ FC Virginia

Requested move 2 June 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to TSJ FC Virginia. (closed by non-admin page mover) – MaterialWorks 23:32, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

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F.C. Virginia → The St. James FC Virginia – Club acquired and rebranded in 2019. 1, 2 Socccc (talk) 23:14, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 11:11, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support per nom and sources. GiantSnowman 11:12, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose: it's clear that FC Virginia remains the common name after the rebrand (e.g., 1, 2, there's more), even in official club communications (e.g., website, social). Per sources after the rebrand, the page should remain where it is or alternatively moved to TSJ FC Virginia, with a lede like "The St. James FC Virginia United, commonly known as FC Virginia or TSJ FC Virginia for sponsorship reasons...". Seany91 (talk) 21:02, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

If TSJ were a sponsor and not the team's owners, I would be more amenable to leaving it at "commonly known ... for sponsorship reasons". But that isn't the case.

I might be missing something, but can you expand on how the "e.g., 1, 2" links show that "F.C. Virginia" is the common name? Both consistently use at least "TSJ FC Virginia", and link 2 uses "The St. James FC Virginia" in its first and primary usage before abbreviating it, which (IMO, at least) would be in line with the move request.

cf. full-name usage in USSF, own usage equivalent of link 2's commits, 2020 equivalent, Soccerwire editorial usage (2, 3), and the team's crest.

I'd also avoid "TSJ FC Virginia" due to MOS:ACROTITLE/WP:NCA ("if the subject is known primarily by its abbreviation _and_ that abbreviation is primarily associated with the subject"). "TSJ" as an acronym is neither primarily associated with The St. James at large, nor is FC Virginia primarily known by "TSJ" compared to either its full name, FCV/FC Virginia, or TSJFCV. "The St. James" in this context arguably isn't even the primarily known usage of "The St. James"; that'd be the unaffiliated residential skyscraper in Philadelphia, or the Court of St James's that both "The St. James" are indirectly named after. -Socccc (talk) 00:24, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I think the additional sources you shared here show that this club is now most commonly known as TSJ FC Virginia and I'd support a move there. As you said yourself above, "The St. James" in this context is not really relevant and most usages only spell it out entirely when they include the full name, which is not the common name. Seany91 (talk) 15:18, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

So if that means by WP:NCST we're calling the team's official name "TSJ FC Virginia" and not "The St. James FC Virginia", how do we resolve MOS:ACROTITLE? Is this an exception? -Socccc (talk) 22:18, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Why is there anything to resolve? We're not discussing "official" name here, but common name. If the subject is most commonly known as TSJ FC Virginia (as opposed to, say, any of the other permutations you listed above), then that should be the page title. No one is proposing the page to be re-named something like TSJFCV, which is when MOS:ACROTITLE would come into play. Seany91 (talk) 00:05, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't mean to come off as combative, I'm just confused by ACROTITLE. I'll defer to experience. -Socccc (talk) 00:08, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

No worries – I didn't perceive you as being combative! Seany91 (talk) 02:09, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

• Comment. As the submitter, I'm not sure if or how I can change the move request myself, but per the discussion above with Seany91 I would change or resubmit the request to instead propose renaming to TSJ FC Virginia. -Socccc (talk) 00:10, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
• I wonder if this should go to AfD instead? It's mostly about the Spirit scandal. SportingFlyer T·C 20:37, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.