Talk:System of a Down/archive2

Archive 1

SYSTEM OF A DOWN ARE EMO - WHY...

SYSTEM OF A DOWN (SOAD) are indeed Emo, and should be classified as such, it is absolutely outragious that their wikipedia entry has been locked, expecially when explicit proof has been given that they are indeed classified as Emo; Namely:

a) They have recently stated they classify themselves as Emo, in their most recent interview and as stated on their website;

b) They clearly sound very similiar to Emo bands of this current time;

c) Their fans are often Emo in culture and socially: (see Emo on wikipedia);

d) They have been labeled as Emo on wikipedia for many months, and this has been reverted to their genre as Emo for several ongoing months by many wikipedia updaters;

e) Their lyrics are extremely emotional, and the way they dress is indeed considered to be "Emo" (See wikipedia entry on Emo); —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.12.233.21 (talk) 12:06, 29 January 2007 (UTC).

Opposition to the above, and responses

Answers:

A.) All music can be considered as emotional!

B.) I have an extensive collection of music and of all the emo music I own (and enjoy!) there are similar characteristics. System of a Down share none of these characteristics.

C.) "Their fans are often Emo in culture and socially" And? It's not about the fans. It's about the music. System's music!

D.) You and a few others have gone a little bit mad if you believe System are an emo band.

E.) It is not about how the band dress. IT'S ABOUT THE MUSIC!

How long has System been considered to "fit" into the alternative metal category? Their music hasn't changed so diversely that they have to be re-categorised. What does anyone gain from their music being labelled anyway?

There has been a consensus, which agrees alternative metal is the most factually appropriate term. This is an encyclopedia of facts. So deal with it.

--Seraphim Whipp 19:51, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Answers to the answers from other person:

A.) mabye so, but system play very emotional music, more emotional than the norm.

B.) This is a personal opinion, carries no weight on wikipedia.

C.) The fans can be used to help judge the genre of the music, expecially when certain fans only listen to emo music, and system of a down is definately one of them in most cases thesedays.

D.) Many others consider system of a down emo, wikipedia is constantly changed by thousands of others to this genre, it is a legitimate claim, and supported by the most recent system of a down interview in which they stated their music was indeed "Emo"

E.) How the band dresses directly influences its culture, and its genre. (as does the way they act, their social habbits, etc etc)

F.) System of a down is no where near eno they can be classified as rock or metal but there not they are pretty much there own genre with rock and metal influences.

I think the whole 'emo' bandwagon has gone a bit crazy... Seriously! Since emo became commonly recognized, everything is emo! I, being a big System fan, (and not a fan of ACTUAL emo music) think they sound nothing like the emo bands of today! (Such as Hawthorne Heights, Taking Back Sunday, The Used, Dashboard Confessional, etc. I actually checked those bands on the emo page on wiki!) If you would have heard emo music yourself, you would know that they bear no similarities to that genre whatsoever, Mr/Ms 202.12.233.21 ... I believe they belong in the alternative rock/metal genre. Anybody else wanna prove our misguided friend wrong?--Gordon Frohman 16:54, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

RE-

a)Shut it, soad has NEVER stated they were emo, EVER. I would like citation, as it says nowhere on the official site that they're emo.

b)Please tell me in what way they sound similiar to Hawthorne heights or Jimmy eat world or red jumpsuit apparatus or anything vaguely at all like that, apart from the sparse similarities punk and metal branches have shared since NWOBHM and onwards.

c)A few of my emo friends listen to soad, yeah. So do a bunch who like death metal. And Metallica/Iron maiden/slayer/80's thrash fans. And big Zeppelin/Sabbath fans, etc etc. "Emo" people don't listen specifically to the genre of emo, nor do most people in a subculture. Most people listen to a bunch of genres. There's a difference between emo culture and emo music, this is nearly 100% irrelevant when discussing a band, I'm just devalidating your connection entirely.

d) No they haven't, you've been recently trolling and need to stop.

e) Emotion is usually found in music, yes. And no they don't dress in anything considered emo, and unless you have any pictures of them in anything considered near emo, please don't speak without citation.

Stop trolling, I don't care how aggravated you are with this band because you are a "true metalhead", whos blood boils as "nu metal fag shit" is labeled as metal, no one cares but a small and angry antisocial minority of you fuckers, who like trolling the internet trying to start some sort of metal revolution or some garbage like that, because you don't have any sort of power in real life. Please go enjoy your music, and the rest of society will enjoy theirs. This site is for information in encyclopedia form, not some sort of revolution on the music world you want to start.

Answers to Person who added "RE" above:

A.) SOAD most DEFINATELY stated they were Emo, in their latest interview I have on mp3 format (email me at markp@hotmail.com) and they also stated in live on air radio for an interview with producer Swizz Beats (KB radio). (again email me for either!) ("shut it" - No.)

B.) This really is a case of personal opinion more than anything else, I agree, but in the great deal of people i've spoken to, and independant reviews i've read, there are definative similarities.

C.) "A few of my emo friends listen to soad, yeah." - Bingo. I doubt they are listening to Eric clapton every weekend as well.

D.) You accuse others of making claims without support, yet you are happy to claim that this has not been edited until recently, without providing any support for that argument?

It can clearly (And I reiterate CLEARLY) seen in the logs, that this has been a constant source of argument on wikipedia for this entry. An entry is not a "troll" just because you disagree with it.

E.) How the band dresses directly influences its culture, and its genre. (as does the way they act, their social habbits, etc etc) (I stand by this original claim, as it is quite correct in my opinion, and those of my peers (independant)). Their clothing can very definately be considered Emo, and has been in independant reviews! (See mTV Sep 2006, and Hard Rock Magazine (New Zealand (AMC) edition #27).

I also emphasise that the above poster of "RE:" remains polite, and realises that all information updated to the discussion area is in "good faith" and welcome for discussion without comments such as "shut it".

Stop removing other users comments

Check the guidelines on talk pages before you start editing out other peoples opinions. My own admission has been removed twice! I am entitled to have an opinion as I am contributing to a discussion regarding the band's genre, a discussion related to changes on the wikipedia page for System of a Down. I will assume good faith that the people that this concerns, have removed my comments without consulting the guideline, but if this does happen again I will take action.

--Seraphim Whipp 14:41, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

My response:

a) I don't know about the interviews.

b) I strongly disagree with that. I don't see any similarities. Could you point out what exactly is similar?

c) Even if you know people, who are Emo and listen to SOAD, doesn't mean their fans are often Emo in culture and socially. People I know who listen to SOAD also listen to, for example, Led Zeppelin, Metallica and Dream Theater. So clearly SOAD is classic rock, thrash metal AND progressive metal.

d) As far as I know, last time they were labeled as emo, it was changed back faster than I could click "discussion". Someone had already changed it back. But they have definitely NOT been labeled as Emo for many months.

e) Oh my, music with emotion in it. Gee. You know what? For example, Strapping Young Lad has lots of emotion in it's lyrics. Strapping Young Lad is clearly emo! Most bands... no. Almost ALL bands have some sort of emotion in their lyrics. That's kinda the point of music. Also, I agree with other people who think that just because they dress in some specific way, it doesn't mean they're emo. 212.213.90.13 11:23, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

My personal input on their Genre

I've been listening to "SOAD" since they came out, personally I reckon they would be classified as "Emo Rock'n'roll" but I would be just as happy with "Progressive Metal" as well. 202.12.233.21

Genre is a changing aspect

I think Emo Metal would be the best genre to describe S.O.A.D. as it shows that they have aspects of emotional rock, with the dark colours and culture, but also heavier metal style music, so it covers the entire spectrum of SOAD music and fans. -Jason Torville jdtorville@westnet.net.au

SOAD? EMO? mabye EMO ROCK, but not normal emo music

I dont think SOAD would be classified as EMO (purely emo music is usually punkish) but I would have no problem with them being classified as Emotional Metal, or Emo Rock, just my opinion... -GoldenJake2007

I have reorganised the talk page according to the Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines. If you have a response, please write it under an existing thread at the bottom of the thread. If you would like to start a new thread, please add that to the bottom of the talk page. As always don't forget to sign your name :-). Thank-you.--Seraphim Whipp 15:29, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Kill Rock & Roll

Is Kill Rock & Roll a actually a single?

no it is on Hypnotize album

I'm not sure. It's on sirius, but i havent heard it on anything but that(and the CD)Also, it doesn't have a music video, that's how i usually judge

The official site did not put up the song, as they did with their previous singles. Plus, if they're going on hiatus, it's doubtful that they would make it a single. The answer is no, Kill Rock & Roll is not a single. Could someone delete it from the list and change the information for it to say that it is not a single? 4.227.251.181 05:06, 23 July 2006 (UTC) July 22, 2006

• I believe it is a radio-only single, along the lines of Innervision, which also did not have a video. (Matt d84 17:32, 1 August 2006 (UTC))

Kill Rock & Roll is not a single but it should've been.

B-sides

Someone keeps adding Patterns to System of a Down's list of B-sides. When it is clearly a song by Tony Iommi, that simply has Serj singing. Perhaps it should be mentioned on Serj Tankian but I definitely don't think it should be noted on the main SoaD article. lynch 01:01, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Lyrics

Quote from "Genre Dispute":

"The lyrics deal mostly with political and social issues or just pure randomness, rather than personal issues."

Someone please change that. The lyrics are very much a question of interpretation. They're not "pure randomness", just very abstract. Actually most of what's written in that section is too subjective in my opinion.

they are just randomness, i quote " pull the tate worm out of your ass ," "goasts are no diffrent than you," if thats not random wat is man!?!?!?!?

Err, it's "Pull the tapeworm out of your ass". And that's a metaphor for drug addiction - the addiction is like a tapeworm, eating you from inside. To pull it out is to get rid of the addiction. The second line you quoted is "Ghosts are no different than you", from the song Question!. The song is about whether or not there's an afterlife, and that's why it's talking about ghosts. It's not "just randomness".

Vicinity of Obscenity, now, that's a different matter ;) But most of their songs are not "just randomness".

(and yes, even Vicinity of Obscenity has a meaning, sort of)

212.213.90.13 16:49, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism in the singles page?

"War?" is listed as a single from "Demo Tape #3 (A.K.A 'The Bug Zapper')", Prison Song and Violent Pornography are listed as singles but have no page for them - it looks a lot like vanadalism to me, but I don't know my SOAD enough to edit it. Please do if it is. /Hugoflug 16:03, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Prision song charted so it should be on there and War? was a single so it also should be on there.The rest shouldn't. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.234.129.34 (talk • contribs)

Yeah, Prison Song & War? are both singles and they do have pages. I don't know about Violent Pornography though. I'm not going to edit it though, in the hope that it will become a single. Sorry. (Telecat 21:41, 14 May 2006 (UTC))

Not a social/political band

I want to see proof that S.O.A.D actually have political lyrics. Lyrics like "Going to the party, dancing in the desert, blowing up the sun shine" do not have any political value. S.O.A.D use their "political" front for publicity, to be viewed as a "unsafe" band.

so. you are pointless.

Clearly shows here that you selectively pulled a line of the song, used out of context, to make a sweeping statement about the band's entire catalog. Listen to "Prison Song", and stop making ignorant uninformed statements. SOAD are very passionate liberals who probably care more about the world than most musicians.--70.119.83.163 16:00, 8 October 2006 (UTC)[User:SlayerRob|SlayerRob]]

Ever read their lyrics? "BYOB" is about war for oil. "P.L.U.C.K." is about genocide. "War?" is about religous hegemony. "Prison Song", curiously enough, is about the prison-industrial complex in America. "ATWA" is about the jailing of Charles Manson. "Violent Pornography" is about the blatant sexualizing of the media. They aren't a very introverted band. Most of their lyrics deal with things outside of personal emotions and the largest subject is usually politics and culture. Also, please remember to sign your comments. -->Chemical Halo 02:30, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Also I'd like to add - the first line of Hypnotize - "Why don't you ask the kids at Tiananmen square?" Could you get more political?! You also have the whole Soldier Side song (the full one from their new album) "Young men standing on the top of their own grave" - talking about young boys who have left for war and are being executed - and now you realise ("Welcome to the soldier side") —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.98.131.9 (talk • contribs)

I'd also like to point out that members of System of a Down have denied the political label in the past. They don't view themselves as a political band, even if they do often cover political topics in their songs. --Dalkaen^T/C 18:35, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Which is as lame as American kids making Anarcho - Whatever- Punk Rock and claiming to be Anarchists in the garages of their rich W.A.S.P daddies.Either stand for your opinions or shut up.Ther song,PLUCK is liked by many Turkish adolescent boys not for its lyrics,but for its sound.And I am frustrated because they mesmerize(yeah that's it) adolescent Turkish kids with their music and make them accept the Armenian Genocide because they simply liked the band,not because they read the relations between Young Turks and the death toll,orders of Enver Pasha etc... .You can find pretty much evidence on SOAD forums throughout the world.I can give you personal info about a few in my neighborhood,I am DEAD SERIOUS.That's like making people think evil of Jews by letting them watch "The Passion of the Christ" (and yes I like South Park).Anyway,I personally dislike nu-metal or alternative rock with vocalists screaming as if they are taking a crap but have their colons stuck with concrete.(If you want,ignore the last lines.)--Turkish Legacy 10:09, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, while it is obvious that SOAD is a band with strong political views, in the eyes of someone like Serj, that would not be their strongest aspect. Serj would probably argue towards their mystical points, and claim that the political part of their music is more social than anything else. Besides songs such as BYOB, many of their songs can be applied to multiple events in history, such as War, and even PLUCK. While the songs are obviously pointed at Turkey and their role in the Armenian Genocide, they can be ultimately applied to thousands of events in history and society as a whole. In short, while they come across as a political band, I think they would like to distance themselves from bands who have no other role than to question CURRENT politics, rather than social views as a whole.

P.S. - Can Kırığı, you seem to have some serious views and a closed mind towards music and opinions different from yours. While you may be upset over their political ideals, you come across as a fool for getting so worked up over it. Try to keep a cool head and you'll look much more intelligent. Avengerx 11:05, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

"Quote - Could you get more political?!" You don't even know the definition of a political band. --Ultrasound 03:42, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

my friend (who is really christian if you get what im saying) says they are satanic...any proof of this?

Heh, they're not Satanic, or if they are, there's no evidence of it in their lyrics. Anyways, the band's protests over Turkish denial of the Armenian genocides during WWI should be more than enough to qualify them as politically outspoken. Lyrically, they have quite a few songs that blatantly satirize and protest political agendas, such as "The Prison Song," "Bring Your Own Bombs," and "Cigaro," so I would categorize them as both a political band and a protest band. - CorbinSimpson 03:16, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Check the liner notes and Serj's thanks, and ou'll quickly see they're not Satanic. I think the song "Sience", as well, makes it fairly clear they have religious beliefs including deific representatioins of the traditional concepts of good and evil, unlike your average Satanist.

There is a song from the first album called "DDevil". I have no idea what most of the lyrics mean, but he does sing "The devil is so lovely". It might be making fun of Satanists though, as Serj stops and laughs in the middle of the song. (maybe that's all just an interpretation). In any event, that is the only instance I can think of where their lyrics are even remotely affiliated with Satan. There should be no reason for anyone of any religion to take offense from their lyrics. - Dramacomic 05:10, 3 March 2006

i think the lyrics for "Suite-Pee" would offend people's religious beliefs, which include the lines "the falling of christ" and the implication that jesus was a woman, and how the bible contradicts itself. [Darklord666 April 28 2006]

Chop Suey has a refrence to the crucifixion of Christ and in Soldier Side (Hypnotize)talking about how soldiers are "wondering when Jesus comes, are they gonna be saved". i think theyre christian

your a f***ing idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What Do You Mean "Not a Political Band"??!! Did you ever listen to "B.Y.O.B."? "Why don't the Presidents fight the war?" Or how about "Boom!"? "Everytime you drop the bomb" I can't believe that anyone would say that System of a Down is not a political band!!! (Telecat 21:38, 14 May 2006 (UTC))

Not Political?? You have no idea. "Going to the party, dancing in the desert, blowing up the sun shine" does have political meaning, it means the government acts like the situation in Iraq is fine and all dandy (going to the party) and dancing in the desert extends to that the desert being Iraq, you obviously never learned about metaphors and symbolism in any school class. Political songs don't have to be obvious. Pretty much every single one of their songs has a political meaning to some extent. I do not think they are Christians or religious at all because some of their songs like "Suite-Pee" are definetley not pro religion at all. And satanic???? Anyone who thinks SOAD are satanic have messed up minds. They may not be pro religion, and they might possibly be atheist and a metal band (because you know metal music is satanic *sarcasm*) but how is ANTI VIOLENCE, ANTI WAR, ANTI HATE, ANTI PREJUDICE, ANTI INTOLERANCE, ANTI RACISM, how can ANY of that be satanic in the least way. In fact if anything goes more along the original idea of Christianity it is that, not some fake Christian president like Bush and all you "Christians" who hate gay people. Real Christians would be tolerant of differences no matter what the bible says about gay people, and you would not believe the lies used to justify wars by our government ("God is on our side" "God bles America"). No, because real Christians would support peace and tolerance and NOT wars for personal gain. No, the people that really are the closest to the ideals of Christianity are those "stoner, metal head, and satanic" System of a Down. -- SOADJPenator

Quote - Real Christians would be tolerant of differences no matter what the bible says about gay people - Nice try buddy. It speaks in Genesis about how God destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah becasue of homosexuality. We should be tolerant of the person, not their actions.

Well, Christianity is more based on the teaching of Jesus, in that the new testament is much more important than the old testament. The New Testament teaches more tolerance of differences, and the modern Catholic church and various more liberal protestant churches allow for homosexuality. And yes, SoaD is political (but that does not mean good).71.202.92.48 01:10, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

System of a down might be somewhat against hypocracy in organized religeon, but I agree that you dont have to obey a two thousand year old book to beleive that Jesus was messiah and follow his wisdom. Lots of the bible is probably fiction anyways.

"Probably fiction"... well the chances are we'll never know about that... Either way though, SOAD are surely not satanic. They certainally hold ideals that are at odds of those of typical satanists, and apart from the DDevil lyric (which I suspect is either intended to be ironic, or sung "in character" as somebody else) there seems to be no suggestion in SOAD lyrics of satanism. However, there are many Christian references (not all of them pro- it has to be said). As for whether SOAD are a political band... I think it's safe to say that they have strong political views that they put accross in their songs, although I believe they wish not to be classified as a political band. Also, some of their songs (Roullette springing to mind, though there are others) have no political references at all. --Demonic Duck 06:56, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Turkish Legacy is completely incompetent and should probably get an education before attemting, and failing miserably, to tell people what to think. His random incoherent babbling is just a waste of space on this talk page. Once you get some schooling Turkish Legacy feel free to come say something that actually makes sense.--Mertens21 06:58, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Whether you agree with a user's statements or not, the antagonistic tone of your post is unwarranted. Please review WP:CIVIL and Wikipedia:Etiquette, and please phrase future disagreements in a more constructive tone. -- H·G (^words/_works) 07:27, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

--SSTB 01:35, 9 August 2006 (UTC) saying that soad is not a political band or doesnt have political veiws makes the person saying it an idiot i mean come on PLUCK(political lying unholy cowardly killers) BYOB(bring your own bombs) i think ive voiced my opinion

I would just like to support what SOADJPenator said, because thus far, they have made the best point and throughly described the message of SOAD i.e. ANTI-RACISM etc--20:46, Friday 12th January (GMT)

SOAD is political. fullstop

Complete Overhaul

I wrote a complete overhaul of the history section. The article was in disarray with grammatical errors, sentences that didn't even make sense, constant (and i mean constant) reiteration of the same fact, events out of time order and the inclusion of non-encyclopedic and unsupported material. In other words the article was in shambles and looked like complete bollocks. Who wrote "was appraised by fans"? Check the definition of the words you are using next time you edit. Thanks. --Ultrasound 03:38, 2 December 2005 (UTC) I just thought that i would point out that, Serj at least, gives thanks to 'God, Allah and Budda' on several albums. This religious influence comes through in several of their songs, but they aren't any particular religion as a band. Each of the members have their beliefs, or lack thereof, and I enjoy the effect that has on their music.

Zelda

Someone should write on this page about SOAD covers, such as the "Zelda Song" which may or may not be by SOAD, and is rumored to be by rabbit joint. anyone with info?

I was wondering about that song too.Worldmaster0 02:26, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

"Legend of Zelda" is indeed by The Rabbit Joint. No source right now, but the singer, Serj, and the old drummer had a band before SysDown, and that was a bootleg that made it onto the internet. - CorbinSimpson 04:47, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

But if the singer is serj, and the drummer had been on SOAD, we can consider it, a system of a down song.

The Rabbit Joint did record the Zelda song (simply titled "Zelda"), and are entirely unaffiliated with SOAD.

The singer of Rabbit Joint has a voice similar to Serj's, that's what caused many to believe the "Zelda" was performed by SOAD - Jon Ace 18:07, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Ive seen a video of SOAD playing it live though...

The Zelda song is actually done by a band called Group X, not SOAD or Rabbit Joint

Group X contributed to that song just as much as SOAD did. None.--Gophergun 17:06, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

The Zelda song is definitely, without a doubt, by The Rabbit Joint. There is proof, and much discussion, at OverClocked ReMix. --Eybub 04:32, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

What happened to the whole line about how the zelda song was mistakenly by system of a down? it was removed from the article. is it ok if i add it? well, im gonna go ahead and do that... - Bagel7

The Zelda song originated on OverClocked Remix by The Rabbit Joint... Not SOAD, not Group X. No one else. Eybub is entirely right, and that's that.

Genre Editing

Current genres: Heavy Metal / Alternative Metal / Hard rock

In the past few days, there's been quite a few edits to the genre heading of this article. Right now, what genres do you think we should have listed? - CorbinSimpson 18:35, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Alternative metal. Heavy metal is too vague (and somewhat inaccurate) and hard rock doesn't describe them quite as well either. That's usually what I see them called by reviewers and such as well, if not nu-metal, and nu-metal is a subgenre of alternative metal anyway, if I'm not mistaken. --Dalkaen^T/C 19:01, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

In the opening paragraph, I've changed the genre to just metal, with no wikilink. The idea is that they defy progressive, nu-metal, heavy metal, and hard rock classifications, having such a different sound. Primus got its very own ID3v1 tag, and System of a Down should have its own unique flavor of music separated from specialization and overclassification. Comments here or my talk, but don't just change without talking, please. - CorbinSimpson 05:50, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I dont think SOAD really has a specific category. you cant just categorize them. - Bagel7

I think I can classify them into one genre: crap.  ;) Cdwillis 16:17, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I can classify YOU that way ;). SOAD has an unique genre, and that's it. They're the best! :D MischiefMaker

They're not metal at all though. Alt. rock would suit better

What the guy above me said. They aren't metal at all. I like System of a Down a lot, but they definitely aren't anything close to metal. Alternative Rock sounds like the best bet right now. --Shralla 15:49, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

They cant be Alt. rock cuz they re heavier and faster than most alt. rock they re not nu metal cuz they dont rap and DEFINITELY not heavy metal cuz they dont really sound like the traditional bands. So I guess the most accurate thing you could call them is simply "metal" Likelightoflies

But they aren't metal, and calling them so is an insult to all real metal bands worldwide. Soad ARE infact nu-metal, however that genre is stupid and therefore SOAD are just plain old Hard Rock.

I think Progressive metal is a suitable genre. How are they alternative? The lyrics are progressive.

Also known as "System"?

I have heard of SOAD but never of just System. I don't want to change it, being an unknokn IP, (I know that much, but I don't know how to spell the other word). I just thought someone who is working on this might consider removing that. 10:27, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I've heard them referred to as just "System" (by a radio DJ). Zafiroblue05 02:12, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

In many conversations both within my own social circles and in the media I hear the referred to as "System". Avengerx 02:57, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

In the beginning of MTV's "Two Dollar Bill" on System of a Down, the crowd's chant can be heard as "System! System! System!" WikiTruth 19:57, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I think that there's no place for the sentence "known as System" or somethig in the article. "System" is just a shortened name used by fans (or journalists etc.), because the full name is a little bit long, it is the same for a plenty of bands like "Purple", "Sabbath", "Cradle" and so on. SOAD for example is used officialy by he band or for the band's merchandise. --Tzeck 13:14, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

at the school I attend the band is commonly referred to by the name "system" --Joe dude 23:17, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it's remarkable enough. --84.249.252.211 14:41, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

'system' doesn't reflect the whole meaning of the band so it should be called by the full name. Try hards that think they know system of a down say and start things like that. System of a down's name reflects the band and what it sings for, every word of it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.168.161.146 (talk • contribs)

i agree with lightfloites up above s.o.a.d

system shouldnt be an "A.K.A." thing, it should be like a shortened version of the band's name - Bagel7

Check out http://www.musicomh.com/interviews/system-of-a-down-2_0705.htm where Serj says "It looks really beautiful and is one of my favorite System videos since Spiders." If he's referring to his own band as System, perhaps it is notable enough to be considered an AKA?205.206.95.151 05:50, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

System is not a disrespectful way to talk about them, people use it quite often simply as a quicker way to refer to them, as opposed to saying/typing System of a Down.Casual Karma 21:13, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

s.o.a.d are a band that wikipedia dont know the genre of i agree that system of a down are between nu-metal and just plain metal besides s.o.a.d are brillant. [slipknot] 21:05, 25/08/06 [utc]  ::::::::::System of a Down is my favorite band, and I call em' "System" all the time. I don't really find it disrespectful; in the "nu-metal world of music", most people know what "System" would mean. --Stonesour025 10:57, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it is a good idea to put "System" in there as an A.K.A. seeing as how there seems to be another band out there know solely as System. I see their CD's at my local Warehouse music everytime I look at the SOAD section. It could become misleading or confusing. --10:57, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

i dont know what u guys are looking at/lisitining to but i have never heard them be called "system". it is always "System of a Down" or "S.O.A.D."

Their songs...

Is it possible to make all of their songs available for editing, because I'm a fan and would like to work on articles for them. Just wondering so if you can help me out, thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WeirdInformar (talk • contribs) 05:03, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Please see Notability and Music Guidelines/Songs for Wikipedia's official policy about songs. See also Wikipedia:WikiProject Songs. Mushroom 15:59, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

• I did see a list of some of their songs linked from the very bottom of System's article, but the song articles there are generally just a few sentences chewing on the same things and some of them say "the lyrics probably mean..." It's badly done- so hey it'd be cool if someone good could go and make proper articles for those songs. :) // James 11:10, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Lonely Day

Somebody NEEDS to put lonely day on the singles list. I don't know why but its driving me crazy! Lonely day is now a single so it should be included in the singles list. Thanks.

Done. Blastdude 05:45, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

regarding lonely day... during ozzfest 2006 Daron Malakian said an insult during the song that was directed toward the band. then someone edited it and said it was directed toward Serj Tankian. which one is it? it was in july 8, but in which city? the link in the citation does not work for me.

Deathtalon 04:29, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Spelling error in article

"Righteous" is misspelled in the article in the section quoting the line from "Chop Suey!"

Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make whatever changes you feel are needed. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit any article by simply following the Edit this page link at the top. You don't even need to log in! (Although there are some reasons why you might like to...) The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. - Bobet 01:32, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Industrial Influences?

I can't find any Industrial influences in SOADs music, anyone got any examples of this? /Hugoflug 21:05, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I dont think there are any - Bagel7

I think there are... the song Old School Hollywood obviously has industrial music influence.(SOAD36 00:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC))

That's one song...Theunknown42 01:04, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

South Park Album

In the South Park article about the episode "Chef Aid" it says they recorded a song on the album for Chef Aid called Will They Die For You? this should be mentioned in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.187.130.178 (talk • contribs)

Interesting. I'll go check. My version of the album says that that track was "Will They Die 4 U" by Mase. If the Chef Aid article is wrong, I will ask on their talk page. Either way, the song is definitely NOT by System of a Down. - CorbinSimpson 21:45, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I have the song, and SOAD is definitely in the song. Listen to the end of the song, where Serj sings "Why must we kill, why must we kill, our own kind." Also, Amazon.com's entry for the Chef Aid album lists SOAD as contributing to the song. [1] - Avengerx 21:54, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

XD, the tags on my copy are messed up. Gracenote confirms SOAD is there. My mistake. - - CorbinSimpson 22:00, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

grammy

they have recieved a grammy for best hard rock performance and this should probaly be put into history section —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.119.116.72 (talk • contribs)

You should've totally removed it (hyperirony.. cough :)) --84.249.252.211 15:37, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

  Will they die for you is a song from the early wu tang clan works 

they did. I have heard the other versions from a few seperate groups.Mr.Merrel 21:05, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Deer Dance and Howard Zinn

There is a lyric from Deer Dance that says we can't afford to be neutral on a moving train. Would this be a reference to Howard Zinn's autobiography, which is titled You Can't Afford to be Neutral on a Moving Train? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Copysan (talk • contribs)

Oops forgot to sign, sorry Copysan 02:33, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't know, if that was unintentional then that would be a huge coincedence.--Gophergun 18:04, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

No, it is not a coincidence, Serj confirmed it on Axis of Justice Radio while him and Tom Morello were interviewing Howard Zinn, and yes that line is taken from Howard Zinn. Serj is very good friends with him and Zinn is a big influence to System of a Down. -- SOADJPenator

SOMEONE ANSWER!

hasn't steal this album gone double platnium yet? —Preceding unsigned comment added by CAYA (talk • contribs)

could someone please answer

I don't know if Steal This Album has gone double platinum yet. I didn't even know that it went platinum. It is a really good album though and it would deserve it.-Leandreamo

Absolutely STEAL THIS ALBUM is very good and sometimes underated-CAYA

That's completely true, CAYA. I'm alway's hearing people say how Steal This Album is just a compilation of scrapped songs or whatever. If they would just read the interviews they would know that that's all bullshit.-Leandreamo

Its double platinum now. And yeah People dont get what they should out of it.Mr.Merrel 21:06, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Steal This Album has NOT gone double platnium yet...check the RIAA website to confirm.

The name

Is the meaning of the name known? In particular, what does "down" refer to? Surely not down (football) or a kind of hill. Something to do with depression (being down)? with poverty (down and out)? This should be in the article.... --Macrakis 18:00, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

The Name System Of A Down comes from a poem that Daron wrote called "Victims of A Down" but Victims was changed to System because it sounded better to the other members. Also, I believe that the poem is on the back of System of A Down's first album. -Eric

True dat Eric. I was gonna write that it's on the back of the first album but then I read what you wrote-Leandreamo

The poem is not in the jacket of the album, at least not mine. I have read in several places that it has never actually been published.Casual Karma 21:12, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

You no what Casual Karma, you may be right. I just assumed that the poem on the back of the first album was "Victims of a Down", but it might be something else.-Leandreamo

Ahh, I see which poem you are talking about. I guess that I never really thought about that poem being Victims of a Down, but I have tried mercilessly to find the Poem "Victims of a Down" on the internet, and have come up with nothing. Maybe until someone can confirm that the poem is indeed "Victims of a Down", the line that says that the poem is on the back of the CD should be removed. What do you think?Casual Karma 06:37, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree.-Leandreamo

I found the poem on the internet, and it is indeed the poem on the back of their first album.

Well on what site did you find this info? You could at least give us that!-Leandreamo

I have heard differently, I heard that the poem on the back of the self-titled is commonly mistaken as 'Victims of a Down', but it actually isn't, honestly, if SOAD haven't released it in some form, then no one still know what the poem is except them. -- SOADJPenator

The name did come from a poem written by daron but it is a statement that society is a system the same system in which the planets rotate and that the grass grows. And that the word society has more of a meaning than considered. I think it relates the way governments are formed and how we kill each other (aside form war) just the general way things work. that we all are parts of this system serving the down or the fall, the natural road to death but not morbidity just the end. also that this system (nature) only has to take orders from itself (a natural Balance).

Mr.Merrel 21:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)== vandalism ==

some retard obviously thinks it's funny to call the band "System Of A Dick". Watch out for shit randomly being changed. As for the genre, alternative metal fits best. They are not heavy metal, AT ALL. Nü metal is arguable, but Alt. Metal carries no negative connotations, unlike nü metal. Hard Rock can stay, though.

DO NOT put "heavy metal" there. That is pure heresy.

I am boldly keeping the opening paragraph worded to describe them as a "metal band". All flavors of metal, from speed metal to death metal to heavy metal to alternative metal to nu-metal to progressive metal carry connotations of one kind or another that would not represent a neutral point of view, and so none of those subgenres will appear in the first sentence of the article. If you want to talk about it, this is the place. - CorbinSimpson 05:51, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

album name

I have often seen an album called Genocide attributed to SOAD. Is this simply a reworked version of SOAD's self titled album, or an entirely different album? And if so, why is it not mentioned in the discography or article as a whole? If anyone could clear this up for me it would be much appreciated

Picture?

what happened to the picture of system in the little infobox? could someone put up one up? El sand bag57 01:46, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Genre?

That quote from Guitar World is heinous. Nobody in their right mind would ever call System of a Down prog-rock. I don't think it should be used as an argument for or against anything.

I've seen it come up before. --Dalkaen^T/C 22:50, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Watch out, Captain anonymous! I pegged these guys as prog back in 1998. I should know! I also don't like the way the 'argument' about nu-metal and heavy metal is written - "voiding" many fans' arguments? Give me a break. dreddnott 14:23, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Truly, with so many aspects to their music, can only one particular genre be given to a band with such a shine? Perhaps someone should mention this in the article?

While you and I may feel that way, most people are accustomed to dumping bands into broad categories so they don't have to think. If you put something in like that, try to make it NPOV... dreddnott 22:02, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

One could partly classify them as prog rock actually considering that their music is very abstract and they use a lot of weird time signatures and time signature changes. I don't see why you're getting offended that they called them prog rock, there's nothing wrong with it at all. -- SOADJPenator

They don't use "a lot of weird time signatures." "Question" is partly in 5/4. That's the only example I can think of. Also they don't have any really long songs, or any instrumentals besides "Hezze" which wasn't released. Macarion 00:05, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Prog does not necessarily mean weird time signatures (which they do have a lot of, and Question isn't just in 5/4, i think it's partially in 7/8 altho i could be wrong), or instrumentals or long songs. Prog does not mean that the songs have to be like that.

Although I dont think that they are prog rock, IT is a quote from a more reputable source, and I think it shows how people don't know how to classify SOAD

This whole section just seems like an excuse for somebody to vent his frustration over how SOAD are categorized as nu-metal. The whole thing seems quite biased.

A Hiatus?

Are there any credible sources to prove that they are actually going on a hiatus? Jman14141414 21:33, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

• I heard a rumour about it when they canceled "Souls", so I went look on System's official website, and didn't find anything about no hiatus on there, so yeah. I don't think anybody knows for sure if they actually are going on a hiatus or not. // James 01:14, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
• Although I did read an interview on VH1, where they say they are goin' on a hiatus, but I dunno. // James 11:00, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I also heard that interview. They are on hiatus.Hezzy 01:32, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Daron said in an interview that they were going hiatus. -- SOADJPenator

Grammy

When SOAD won a Grammy for BYOB, they won it under 'Hard Rock'. Was this because this was how the Grammy judges thought of them or because there was no Alt Metal (not sure if this is correct) category? jimarib - 8:00, 7 May 2006

It wasn't the first time a band won a grammy in the "wrong" category. Who really understands them? :/ Jango12 - 2:02, 8 May 2006

Hard rock is a broad category. The Grammys don't have awards for super-specific styles. So yes, there's no alternative metal category. WesleyDodds 07:10, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

--SSTB 01:44, 9 August 2006 (UTC) The reason the grammys dont do awards for specific styles is because a new name for a style is made every day the bands i once knew as punk bands are now being called emo

New Album

Isn't the speculation of System of a Down releasing a new album next year made redundant by their announcement of going on hiatus? Matt d84 00:55, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I searched at Google about their new album coming out next year. So far, their page at IMDB.com and a newsletter from Sputnikmusic says that the System of a Down is already writing their new album. 65.222.216.15 01:26, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Both of these articles predate the announcement of their hiatus (Matt d84 21:22, 15 May 2006 (UTC))

I think they are going on hiatus first, note that the new album was only a RUMOUR where as the hiatus was said by Daron personally. But we can still hope that they are faking hiatus only to release a new album as some bands have done. -- SOADJPenator

Yeah, it was a rumor. I've been recently hearing that the band is now on hiatus, but they never said anything about a new album. I hope they won't be on hiatus for too long. But, I think that the new album would be intrested and hope it'll sound as good as all their albums. Mike Garcia 20:26, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

That wouldn't make it redundant. Redundant means saying the same thing twice. You can't release an album during a hiatus. Macarion 00:01, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Clean Up

The articles all over the place, I've put it up for cleanup Lipzydude 20:45, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Ive been putting this {'{subst:prod|this song is not a single on the given album, nor popular}'} everywhere to mark it for cleanup. For use, remove the apostrophies.(Vance Clarend 10:23, 19 May 2006 (UTC))

Vandalism Fixed

Someone vandalized the top saying it was "the greatest band ever" it messed up the format and the page. I fixed it for you guys... maybe i'll join some day

System of a fucking greaser?!?!

Someone vandalized the page, and redirected System of a Dick article to "System of a Fucking Greaser". I don't know how to reverse it, so can anyone do that? - James 16:00, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

A sock puppet of persistent vandal Johnny the Vandal is probably the one who redirected this article to "System of a Fucking Greaser". He sometimes calls me and other users a "fucking greaser" for harassment. He sometimes redirects articles to names with nothing but bad words or something, if you see him do that, just click on the "move" button, that's the way to reverse it. Mike Garcia 16:26, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Genre

Hard rock? I don't really think so. Metal? What metal? There are many metals.

Who the hell removed the good definition of "alternative metal"?! --194.251.240.114 01:04, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Mushroom Cult

Why is this listed as a B-Side? What was it a B-Side to? It's an album track from Anarchists of Good Taste. It's also technically NOT a System of a Down song, as the only member of SOAD on it is Serj (and he only gets a small mention in the liner notes for "Guest Vocals on Mushroom Cult"). Foolish Child 15:38, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

The fact is that some kids are misled by a file circling the web called System of a Down - Mushroom Cult.mp3, and when looking for random SOAD material they end up downloading this song. Nonetheless, it sounds nothing like System (apart from Serj's vocal), so people should think twice before putting something like this on wikipedia. Also, I have seen various pages that list SOAD's discography and show this song on a special Collaborations section, in this case it is a collaboration of Serj with DFD.

And by the way, on my album it reads "Additional Vocals on Mushroom Cult". VdSV9•♫ 20:14, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey, sue me. But IMO, it sounds a lot more like Dog Fashion Disco, as it would seem out of place on a SOAD record, but doesn't on Anarchists of Good Taste. And should the "B-Sides" section be retitled? Because I'm willing to bet most of those aren't B-Sides (the only one I know for sure is a B-Side is Johnny, which was on the Chop Suey! single). Foolish Child 08:34, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree, some changes are needed in that part of the article. Songs that are listed as B-Sides should have the source of the B-side written beside them. As stated, Johnny could have "(appears on Chop Suey! single)" written beside it. We could add another section, named "Collaborations", for songs such as "Mushroom Cult" and "Will They Die 4 U?", and another section named "Other known songs", or something similar, for other System songs of unknown origin. Pookythegreat 19:55, June 2, 2006

Strawpoll: Genres

Yes, yes, I know, WP:STRAW and all that. Polls are evil, but I'm going to use them as a method of gaining a bit of consensus. In short, put your name down for each genre you think the article should have in the infobox. If polls were binding, the winning genre would, in theory, be the one mentioned in the article header, "System of a Down is a [genre here] band..." However, that's beyond the scope of this poll. Basically, this is just for narrowing down genres and seeing if this band is classifiable. Since this is only a poll, I am staying out of this and not voting, as to not spoil the process. Please sign your comments with ~~~~ so that we can track discussion better. Oh, and stay civil. - Corbin ^{Be excellent} 03:39, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Hard rock

IMO they're lastest stuff is very much similar to this (Blastdude 20:20, 25 June 2006 (UTC))

Alternative metal

• The best possible description for them, though its not very good. --Chicken Twinky 21:25, 6 November 2006
• Demonic Duck - but mention that it's a subject of heated debate, and that SOAD in fact uses a fusion of many different genres.
• --Dalkaen^T/C 00:25, 7 June 2006 (UTC) - Simple, inoffensive way to sum up their genre.
• James 12:32, 7 June 2006 (UTC) - Not hard enough to be just metal, and not even close to being nu-metal. :D
• Avengerx 12:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC) - If they have to be classified, this is the only fitting classification.
• Casual Karma This is the most fitting, although it is still pretty weak. They are really their own sound....
• Satans.Girl666 19:48, 17 June 2006 (UTC) i thnk this is also pretty weak for their type of music genre...they're more metal or at least in the middle of it
• Dwnsjane2 04:34, 4 July 2006 (UTC) - Fits for the most part.
• --Childzy _talk ^contribs 19:29, 9 July 2006 (UTC) close as you'll get
• For lack of a better term. --Conti|✉ 02:22, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
• Not exactly Alt. Metal, but probably as close as you can get. DEFINITELY NOT NU-METAL.--  Mertens21  ^Talk  05:29, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

• Hello2112 23:43, 5 September 2006 (UTC) - It's the best one.
• NJlo 17:12, 7 September 2006 (UTC) best description I think. or we should decide on calling it something new, like Muse being called Artcore :-S
• Mudel They're quite unique, thus you can't put them in a group, they're alternative

Heavy metal

• Instead of all this confusion, why not "lable" s.o.a.d.'s style of music as just "metal"...?

Nu metal

• I don't know how anyone could classify system as a nu metal band. Compare system with bands like Children of Bodom. Do they sound the same...no. Are the lyrics similar...no. System actually sings their songs, they don't scream them. System doesn't have those really bad arcade sounds like Children of Bodom or any other horrible nu metal band.

• what the fuck does children of bodom have to do with nu-metal? do you even know what nu-metal is? COB is speed/power metal with distorted vocals.

• i think they're kinda nu-metal. i'm pretty sure songs like prison song and chop suey! have obvious nu-metal influences

Thrash metal

• I consider their music to have significant elements of thrash metal. As a proof, I'd like to mention such songs as Deer Dance, Prison Song, Science, Chic'n'Stu, Highway Song, Thetawaves, B.Y.O.B., Cigaro, Sad Statue, Attack, and Dreaming for being the most obvious examples. On the other hand, their music incorporates much experimenting and elements of other genres, so I'd never apply solely "thrash metal" term to SOAD.
• Sounds closest, a generic 'hardcore' label might be more accurate. --Overand 04:03, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I hear alot of hardcore in their sound too. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by HappyBoy (talk • contribs) 23:58, 16 December 2006 (UTC).

• They have many elements of thrash metal --EverEndingStory 21:22, 6 November 2006

Speed metal

• (your vote here)

Progressive rock

• The influences are clear..

Quote from a Rolling Stone interview: "Writing long progressive rock in a three-minute-song format -- that's the trick," Serj raves. The quote can be found here NightHunteR 12:25, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

• Absolutely 100% - trust me on this one, you uncultured Philistines dreddnott 01:41, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
• Yes. --EverEndingStory 21:23, 6 November 2006

• This does not sound like prog-rock at all, i am a huge prog-rock fan, and also a system fan. I would never classify System of A Down as Progressive. They may have prog influences but that does not make them of that Genre. I would more likely say that they are Alternative Metal --[chalkythe************] 24:36, 27 January 2007

Psychedelic rock

• Why not it works for me

• it works for me also. --Chicken Twinky 8:03, 20 January 2007

Experimental music

• Yes, though maybe Art rock would be better. --Chicken Twinky 21:22, 6 November 2006

• i'm good with this. they call themselves that on their purevolume page.Itachi1452 02:57, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Industrial music

• (your vote here)

Unclassifiable/Other

• Various - Just put Various for the genre, like in the case of Mr. Bungle. SoaD don't easily fit into any of the genres mentioned here. Foolish Child 09:12, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

• System Of A Down - Alternative, folk.. I don't know? --84.249.252.211 13:38, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

• Xerxes855 22:04, 29 June 2006 (UTC) "Alternative" is good. However, they switch between and mix between being alternative rock and alternative metal and just plain weird. It really depends on the song and album as to what genre they are. Their self titled album is definitly metal, but the new stuff (Hypnotize/Mezmerize) really isn't. Perhaps their should be a section in the article about change in sound/genre over time?

• I suggest we simply put in something along the lines of "whose music mainly appeals to fans of hard rock, alternative, and nu-metal music"? There's no true need to define their genre, as genres are eternally disputed these days. --Pookythegreat 05:16, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Capitalisation of Title

What's the correct capitalisation of SOAD? Is it System of a Down, System of A Down or System Of A Down? SOAD's own website seems to imply (where it's not written in ALL CAPS) that it's System Of A Down, whilst several SOAD albums I have ripped state it as System of A Down in their metadata.

Meh, it doesn't really make a huge ammount of difference... only that whatever one it is should be the article name, with the other possible capitalisations redirecting to it. Maybe I'm just being a bit pedantic here... Demonic Duck 13:39, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

"System of a Down" is the grammatically correct way to format their name. --Dalkaen^T/C 00:27, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

"SoaD" is also the way it's capitalized on Billboard listings and at Gracenote. - Corbin ^{Be excellent} 21:10, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Standard naming conventions would have it as System of a Down. Foolish Child 09:42, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Fair 'nuff, that's cleared that up then. Demonic Duck 22:55, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Songs Incorrectly Attributed to S.O.A.D

It seems there are more than one of these... The Zelda Song... also, a song called "speak english or die" which is actually by S.O.D, and the song "Mushroom Cult" which is actually by Dog Fashion Disco plus some vocals from Serj, I have seen attributed to S.O.A.D. And I think there are more, although I can't remember them on the spot. Should these be mentioned in the main article to clear up possible confusion, or not? Demonic Duck 22:55, 10 June 2006 (UTC) I can understand the Zelda Song mixup because they did make a song called "Legend of Zelda".

Terrorist Issue

The section "Terrorist Dispute" is poorly written and unnecessary. Is there any reason why it shouldn't be deleted? ShauntA 04:19, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Because, (as far as I can see,) it doesn't exist. Demonic Duck 21:21, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I was pretty angry about how biased it was. I am glad that they deleted it.Casual Karma 21:11, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Unreferenced

I added the "References" section and the {{unreferenced}} template. Unless I am mistaken, there are very, very few verifiable, cited references in this article. --ElKevbo 21:25, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

You were right to do so, Its one of my projects to get this article referenced.--Childzy ^{(Talk|Contribs)} 19:54, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Too many fan sites

I recommend that, in accordance with WP:EL, most of the fan sites listed in this article be deleted. Wikipedia is not a collection of links. I think a brief discussion might be helpful to establish which one or two fan sites are most noteable and should remain. --ElKevbo 21:28, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I most wholeheartedly agree, if we were to just put fan site listings on every band page, we would lose the entire point of Wikipedia in the first place would we not? Kaobear 21:04, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Tours?

Does anyone know when and where their next tour will be? And are they ever going to have a concert in Dayton, Oh. ?12.75.98.93 03:24, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

After Ozzfest they are going on hiatus. Macarion 23:54, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I know that, I mean after the hiatus.Defy You 23:31, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

The hiatus is indefinite, and has been quoted as quite-long term. Don't expect a concert within the next two years. Pookythegreat 1:11, 12 July 2006

Victims of a Down?

I know that this is where they got their name, but it is said that it is written on the back of their debut album. I have this album, and I may just be stupid, but I can't find it anywhere. Can anyone tell me if this is true, or where it is? Casual Karma 01:24, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

The poem that I was refering to was the one on the back of their debut album. But like I said in the "The Name" section, it might be something else and not the poem. So, Casual Karma, if you have seen the poem that is on the back of the case, then that is the poem that Eric was talking about as well.-Leandreamo

I dont no how true this is but my friend told me that the was some sort of german blimp for some war and it was called "system of a down" but idk

Demo Tapes

Are the seperate pages for the demo tapes, which have 3-4 songs each, really necessary? (Matt d84 21:40, 4 July 2006 (UTC))

I personally believe that there should simply be one page, with all the info for the 3 demo tapes on 'em. It's a waste of pages to seperate them. --Pookythegreat 05:13, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Armenian Metal?

Why don't we just call it Armenian metal? That would save us a lot of heated debate, and it would be accurate.Defy You 00:18, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

They have requested multiple times in interviews not to be considered Armenian metal.4.225.214.238 04:03, 26 July 2006 (UTC) July 25, 2006

but it sounds so good...

Nothing to do with black metal

To associate this band with black metal (only for the guitarist's "appreciation" for Satyricon (band)) is highly misleading. Many bands of various rock genres have blastbeats and aggressive riffs. Unless there's more explanation/elaboration, such association is clearly POV. --Danteferno 04:47, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

"Reminiscent of," "elements of" --Macarion 04:49, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

POV. --Danteferno 04:51, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I have changed "black metal" to "extreme metal", since tremolo riffs/double bass beats are very broad and DO NOT define black metal. --Danteferno 02:54, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Is there even such a thing as extreme metal? --Pookythegreat 05:14, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

There's a link to the term explaining what it is. --Danteferno 11:50, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism of the Hiatus section

A while ago, I added the part with the improv'd Lonely Day lyrics, and cited my source, or referenced it, or whatever. I came back to show a friend, and my ctied source was removed, and someone added uncited things about SOAD management company, among other things. This needs to be checked out, in my opnion. This is the portion I am referencing, that I believe to be vandalism:

"However, according to Lauren Valencia of Velvet Hammer (System's management company) not only was that statement never made but the band is closer than ever! On July 8th, while playing Lonely Day, Daron improvised the lyrics to, "Such a lonely day, with the band/I love these guys right here." Tankian quickly followed that by stating "everybody should mind their own business!" All seems to be kosher in the System of a down camp." While it is possible that these statements are true, they are unreferenced, and oughtta be looked into.

Although, last night (7/15/06) During System's performance at OZZfest (which I attended) when daron improv'd the lyrics, he said: "Such a lonely day, with the band/I love these motherfuckers right here." So. Who knows?Casual Karma 22:24, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Singles / Discography merge

I just merged the singles chart from System of a Down discography here to help complete any possible merge of that article to this one's Discography section. The chart is an exact copy of that page's chart, except that I added the singles that were listed on this page already to the chart, regardless of charting position. In other words, no data has been lost in the transition. -- H·G (^words/_works) 19:08, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

The reason that page is there is to ensure that the article stays at a reasonable size. I have now deleted everything from this articles Discography (and added to System of a Down discography) apart from the albums (for easier finding). That is why the page is there. Childzy ^{(Talk|Contribs)} 19:14, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Examples

• Evanescence - Evanescence discography
• Linkin Park - Linkin Park discography

Childzy ^{(Talk|Contribs)} 19:19, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

• With respect, there seems to be a very real consensus in the talk page for the article System of a Down discography to merge that page with this one. Additionally, the article version including the information added[2] is apparently below the standard goal/limit of 30kb, and a visual inspection of that edit version appears to be within reasonable length expectations, so I'm not sure how length is an issue. If not, I fail to see how a separate discography page is needed here. With a merge, all of the summary information is available in one destination page without duplication problems. -- H·G (^words/_works) 19:27, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

• • fair enough but untill a formal merge request has been put forward and a debate has ensued the article shouldnt be merged, as you started to do. I feel it should not be merged, you feel it should thus a debate, so untill it has been decided formally please dont try to merge again. Thanks Childzy ^{(Talk|Contribs)} 19:53, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

• Understood; however, in reality the changes I made today were very small and were not along the lines of a real merge--in effect, I turned the existing data on this page into a chart and added a few more sentences[3]. I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I would suggest that your edit was a much larger change in the effect of moving data that had been on this page for several months now. Thus, I'll go ahead and revert this page to what it was before either of us made a change and post a formal template requesting discussion of such a merge. -- H·G (^words/_works) 22:08, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

I made that edit as it does not belong on this article, thats why a seperate article is in exsistance. I dont want a fight either, i cant be bothered. I will still disapprove of the merge but im not the sort of person that gets worked up so sorry if i was a little "heated before". Childzy ^{(Talk|Contribs)} 22:14, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

B-Sides?

Could the songs on the lonely day EP be considered B-sides?

EPs don't have b-sides, singles do (Matt d84 02:31, 26 July 2006 (UTC))

What he meant is, when the "Lonely Day" EP was realeased some other songs, previously unrealesed (I think), were realeased with it: "Shame", "Metro", "Snowblind" (from Black Sabbath's tribute album) and "Marmalade". --88.153.41.195 20:21, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Serj the Guitarist

I'm aware of the fact that Serj occasionally plays guitar live. Are there any studio tracks in which he contributed guitar? (Matt d84 02:34, 26 July 2006 (UTC))

I am not sure, it is possible that the songs that he contributes to live, he also plays in studio. What about this: At the St. Louis Ozzfest stop, and older black gentleman who had been walking around all day playing his guitar suddenly appeared onstage, and appeared to be a part of the band, at least for live shows, with mulitple guitar lines. Anyone know what that was about? Is he with the band, or was he just in St. Louis, and someone found him, and thought they should show the band, or what? Sorry, I digress. Casual Karma 06:10, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Yea at the Camden, NJ Ozzfest that same black guy played guitar in some sort of dress clothing. I didn't see him walk around though I only saw him when Serj introduced him as Harry something. I think someone should state that they at sometimes bring him out. 10 August 2006

I',m pretty sure that Serj plays a bit in Chop Suey!. i looked up some tabs for it and it says he plays some small parts. The tabs might be wrong and Daron might play it, but there is another guitar in the background that the tabs say Daron plays. [haha, my name isn't known by you] August '06 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.183.253.65 (talk • contribs) 4 August 2006

Ya, now that you mention it, he did say some name before I noticed the guy up there. I was too dazed from the it to remember what he said though..

His name is Harry Perry I think. He's played with them a lot during Ozzfest. He didn't play at the last show though if I remember correctly. -Revan1013

Why "Nu Metal dispute"?

Their music has nothing common with nu metal. No turntables, no sampling, no rapping. Finally, SOAD uses much more complex riffs and rhythmical patterns than most nu metal bands do. Their lyrics cover various aspects of everyday life, politics, history, etc., unlike nu metal bands' lyrics.

Also, "alternative metal" is a very loose categorization, but, on the other hand, the only one directly applying. SOAD are alt metal just because their music doesn't fit directly into any other genre, being a complicated mix and fusion of different genres. IMO they don't exactly fit into any of the alt metal subgenres listed in the corresponding article. SOAD aren't funk metal, as well as they aren't industrial, punk or nu metal. So, as said above, they are alt metal just because no other categorization can be directly applied.

I suggest renaming this part of the article to "Genre Dispute", taking into consideration Malakian's words on SOAD being called "whatever is popular". Also, IMO it'd be nice to expand it a bit, mentioning SOAD's unique style which doesn't fall directly under any categorization (well yes, they're alt metal, but what subgenre, eh?). Also, I'd propose to mention significant thrash and progressive influences in their music. Many of their songs incorporate "thrashy" passages, and on the other hand, they pay much attention to usage of unusual and complicated rhythmical patterns and guitar play, as well as sophisticated vocals (shouting, talking instead of singing, whispering, growling, peeping etc., not to mention sudden alternations), which tells us of their "progressiveness".

IMHO.

But I still suggest the headline to be changed to "Genre dispute".

• Oh. Well, I though nu metal dispute was an accurate title, seeing as how most of the dispute involves people disproving the nu metal label, rather than giving them a proper classification. While you may think that they have "nothing in common with nu metal," a lot of people who aren't fans of their music, or even unbiased music critics, label them as nu metal (Sound of the Beast: The Complete Headbanging History of Heavy Metal, Metal: A Headbanger's Journey, etc.) While I also disagree with the nu metal label, I can understand how people could classify them as such, due to their emergence during the nu metal boom and their appearance at Ozzfest. It's interesting that with all of the varied and sometimes ridiculous metal subgenres (Crustcore? Florida/New York/Swedish Death Metal? Stoner Metal?) that there isn't really one that adequately fits for SOAD. (Matt d84 01:16, 31 July 2006 (UTC))
  • In the straw poll above, no one voted for it as nu metal. Labeling it "nu metal dispute" made it seem like more people thought it was nu metal than other types of metal, which the straw polls seems to indicate is not true.--Xerxes855 18:29, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

• • • I think that nu metal is unfitting. I mean, they are new metal, but not the nu metal that has rap, they are kinda their own thing, really....

• Personally, I feel the nu-metal label is purely time based, to describe any hard-rock band from the late 90's-early 2000's. So I don't feel that nu metal really fits any band currently recording music, or at least bands releasing new music that shows growth from their previous work. It kind of reminds me of the New Wave of British Heavy Metal, how it is used to describe music from a time period rather than a stylistic standpoint. (Matt d84 01:08, 3 August 2006 (UTC))

What ideology do they actually subscribe to?

Its pretty clear they're on the left but what precisely are they? Democratic Socialists? Anarchists? Communists? Or are they just anti-capitalists who haven't nailed themselves to a particular ideology?--CTerry 00:30, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't think they have ever said what they "subscribe" to, but I can imagine what they would say if asked the question. I am fairly certain that it would be a similar answer to the one they give when asked what genre they consider themselves: "We are System of a Down"Casual Karma 02:57, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Couple of changes

Ive changed a few things, like adding previous members below the members, but i dont know how to link or do graphics yet, so if someone could go finish those up that would be great :)

I removed

"As of this moment there aren't any plans to record any new albums, following the scheduled hiatus." Because, to me, this seemed like a "Well, no shit, Sherlock" statement. Very few bands "have plans" for what they are going to do post-hiatus. If you think I'm wrong, feel free to place it back in there.

I added

"Tonight will be the last show we play for a long time together," Daron Malakian, guitarist and singer for System of a Down, told the capacity crowd during Sunday's last performance. "We'll be back. We just don't know when."

He said that at the closing date of Ozzfest. I figure that this is somewhat important, as it shows that they are planning on coming back together at somepoint.

Non NPOV in "Armenian Genocide issue" section?

For nearly a century, the Western World has wholeheartedly accepted that there has been an attempt by the Ottoman Turks to systematically destroy the Armenian people, comparable to what the Nazis committed upon the Jews during World War II. Many Armenians who have settled in America, Europe and Australia (along with other parts of the world, known as "The Armenian Diaspora") have clung to the tragic events of so long ago as a form of ethnic identity, and have considered it their duty to perpetuate this myth, with little regard for facts... at the same time breeding hatred among their young. As descendants of the merchant class from the Ottoman Empire, Armenians have been successful in acquiring the wealth and power to make their voices heard... and they have made good use of the "Christian" connection to gain the sympathies of Westerners who share their religion and prejudices. Turks characteristically shun propaganda, and have chosen not to dwell on the tragedies of the past, forging ahead to build upon brotherhood — not hate. This is why the horrifying massacres committed upon the Turks, Kurds and other Ottoman Muslims by Armenians have seldom been heard. When such reports are heard, Westerners can be callously dismissive... Turkish lives are apparently as meaningless to them as Indian lives were to most early Americans.

I have the feeling those 2 paragraphs are blatantly "anti-armenian genocide". The whole passage is in contradiction with the protected article on the Armenian_Genocide. To me, the arguments used lack neutrality. I suggest these 2 paragraphs be removed. Fabricebaro 09:31, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I removed them. Discussion about the specifics of the Armenian genocide do not belong in this article, especially one sided arguments.--Xerxes855 23:24, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

So this was a kind of f***ing vandalism. Could I have not gone through the pain of citing, I directly removed the offending text ? Fabricebaro 16:39, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you. Although the 2 paragraphs you quoted were absolutely true, it is debated amongst people, therefore it doesn't belong in this article. However, we should add "alleged" to most of the mentions of Armenian Genocide, since it is not a proven historical event, only a debated topic claimed by some Armenian scholars and propagandists. Executex 04:11, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Demo Tapes easy to find? WRONG! (right)

I added this and someone thinks it's funny to change it… I gave proof that they are hard to find and expensive as well. Whoever this is must stop unless he can post some proof. Thank you!

Actually, I've downloaded them quite easily off bittorrent sites -CJ

Don't have to look that hard. Not even off a torrent site. SOADfans.com has them for free. just sign up and download.

Look on Ebay They are THAT expensive. noah

WTF Happened to this page (and other soad stuff)???

?? NJlo 17:05, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh it's back, nevermindNJlo 20:44, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Strangeland

I dont know if anyone noticed, but a song, which i dont know the name of, was left out. Its a song from a Dee Snider movie called Strangeland. They were on the soundtrack. Anyone know what im talking about?Definishun 17:46, 7 September 2006 (UTC)9/7/06 12:48 pm

It's "Marmalade". I believe it is featured on the list of b-sides and demos. (Matt d84 20:32, 7 September 2006 (UTC))

Oh, kool, thanks a lot man!

Lebanese descent?

I know Serj and John were born there (according to there Wikipedia pages), but Shavo was born in Armenia and Daron in Hollywood (his father was from Iraq.) Any proof that Shavo and Daron are of Lebanese descent?--Xerxes855 19:30, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I can't find any.--MGrizzle 01:31, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Just because they're born in Lebanon doesn't mean they have any Lebanese descent. They're all of Armenian descent.

Friik?

Friik! blue and others like that where did they come from?

What?--MGrizzle 01:31, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

They were songs off of their early demos. noah

Covers

System of a Down have made a cover version of the theme tune to The Legend of Zelda video games. Did they not? Is this relevant? Dfrg.msc ^{1 . 2 . 3} 09:49, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

• Read the section on this talk page entitled "Zelda" and you will find your answer. (Matt d84 15:07, 15 September 2006 (UTC))

• • Ah. Dfrg.msc ^{1 . 2 . 3} 00:47, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Broke up

I'm not talking about Ozzfest. I know they were just taking a "Hiatus," but I heard from my friend that they officially broke up because Serj and Daron got in an arugument. She said she heard it from a lot of people and the news. Is this true?

nooooooo! they r not breaking up! ur friend is wrong!

Well they better not be breaking up, because they are a great band and them breaking up would leave me with angry music, not angry crazy meaningful funny interesting and whatever else music that they give me a leathal dose of every so often, those saints in disguise (im not religous) Thanks, Good Night New Zealand, Chris out.

Origin

System of A Down from Hollywood?? All interviews I've read say they're from Glendale.

more vandalism

now the page says theyre the greatest metal band ever,and even insults korn now.someone please fix this.

If you're able to say something on the talk page, you're able to change that. also, sign your name here please. NJlo 17:53, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Slow motion edit war (regarding 1995–2006/1995–present)

Could we please stop this slow motion edit war between numerous participants about whether SoaD were active from "1995 - present (currently on hiatus)" or from "1995 - 2006 (currently on hiatus)"? There's no point in changing it back and forth without any comment all the time, we should rather get some consensus on this. --Conti|✉ 16:17, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree, but the thing is, SOAD aren't together. If they were "present", John, Daron, Serj, and Shavo would be working together, and/or wriing songs, etc. And plus, when someone is trying to find out when SOAD went on hiatus, it doesn't help that it doesn't say in the infobox. Just my opinion. ScreamAtMe 02:19, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

I have changed it to '– present' numerous times. The band may not be active at the moment, but they have not disbanded yet. Queen have technincally not been active since 1997 (Queen + Paul Rodgers currently is), yet it still reads '1970 – present', because they have not broken up. - Zone46 03:21, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

SOAD is NOT making any new maerial, they are on hiatus! People forget that this is an encylopedia, not a freaking fan site!!! We are supposted to have all the information in a conveinent spot; no one is going to search all the way through the article, it takes too much time. Not everyone who vists Wikipedia isn't a member! They are people looking for information!!! If we don't and won't put up the information, why even bother?! WereWolf 23:23, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

A hiatus is just a hiatus. Their guitarist Daron Malakian said that the band is not officially broken up at all. In any way, when bands like Tool and Nine Inch Nails were no longer around for five years between an album, they would have happened to be the same as System of a Down, going on hiatus without disbanding. So, I guess we'll just leave it as "1995 - present (currently on hiatus)" for now until there's any news whether they are officially disbanded or not. Alex 23:40, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

i don't care, we have to have all the information, please, this isn't a fan site, it just isn't. WereWolf 03:18, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Same songs

There are from what i think 2 songs on the first album that sound very similair to thier other songs. "Darts" is similar to "A.D.D." instrumentally and theres some other one i can't remember.--LukaszFalencki 17:31, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

There is only one riff in each of the songs that sounds as though it could be of any similarity, and even then it's not the same. What relevance is this anyway? Cool Z 23:09, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Armenian Genocide List Incorrect?

I don't really have any problems with the current list, but have you ever heard "Dear Dance"? The first verse and chorus seem to scream the relationship to a genocide, if not the Armenian Genocide. Does anyone else think this belongs with other songs dealing with the Armenian Genocide? RockMaster 03:33, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Deer Dance has to do with the protests that occured at the Democratic National Convention outside the Staples Center in L.A., and the ensuing riots which involved police brutality. (From the Axis of Justice Radio Show) Matt d84 14:33, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Steal this Album - b-sides???

Hey I'm from Germany, thats why I don't dare to edit the article, but I noticed a mistake: The band never told that Steal This Album is a B-Side album and they said, that they don't want the fans to think that. All members say that Steal this album is to finish the toxicity project. Steal This Album is as important as all the oters. I don't know how to say it in English. It has the same status ... you know. Okay, maybe you can edit it for me (in a better way)--89.14.180.201 10:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Screamers documentary

I made this article about the recent documentary that System features prominently in. I wasn't sure how to fit it into the article here, but I believe it deserves mention. -- Augustgrahl 06:00, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree it should be in. --Trusader 02:08, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Someone please fix the massive quote that goes along the page

You know, the quote about their hiatus... i'd fix it myself but, i'd probably wreck it more... just thought i'd tell everyone... --220.253.48.244 10:06, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

1995 B.C.-1896?

One of the sections under "History" is titled "1995 B.C.-1896." I'm pretty sure those aren't the right dates. What's up with that?

No, they sound about right

Vandalism

The name of the band was listed as "System of a Dick" throughout the page, I have am changing it all back to Down instead of dick.....I am not sure how to tell who did it or how to report them, could someone else help with that? -- Gimpy

Genre

Sorry if this is not the protocol but I'm new to this. Just read the discussion regarding the genre of S.O.A.D. All the editors have completely missed the obvious psychedelic influences - Beatles were cited as key influence in main article. I would settle for psychedelic progressive rock/metal. Don't really understand peoples need to categorize music as they do though.

New pic

Put up a new pic, the old one was probably deleted in the recent 'incorect' copyright tag raid. --Mudel 20:59, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

It looks better but you cannot really make out each individual member. I think a bigger picture would be better. --Trusader 02:06, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Good luck finding one that those wikifreaks will acknowlage as true promophoto. Will try though... or I'll make one ;) --Mudel 20:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

Removed a header section (that was right above History) that simply said: "DID YOU KNOW SYSTEM OF A DOWN ARE ARABS?". Pointless, stupid, and irresponsible. ChaoticVengeance 01:16, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

B.Y.O.B.

What does "still you feed us lies from the tableclot" mean?--Kingforaday1620 23:39, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

tablecloth

A metaphor, like feeding the scraps to the dogs. Unworthy of the truth, to put it another way. --Dayn 12:14, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Serj's Voice

Is it just me, or does the method of which Serj sings at live shows change after Toxicity? He no longers screams as much, but rather yells. Less rapsy I guess. Now, his singing is more talking than actually singing. Maybe its just another change that the band did with the new album.

I suggest you make the comparison

Science Live 2001 Toxicity Era

Science Live 2005 Mezmerize/Hypnotize Era

Eh, probably just me. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.25.46.18 (talk) 01:18, 28 December 2006 (UTC).

Yeah he has changed the way he sings live, but I like it all the same. ChopAtwa 08:08, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I forget where I read it, I'll try to find a link, but it was him explaining how before he used anger to express his emotions, and now in the later albums he did that through the lyrics more so then before. NBAwire:syxx 03:16, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Small edit

I am not even going to get involved with the genre debatte 'cause frankly all it is is one group of people having a fit over their dear SOAD getting categorized as Nu-metal and another group of people trying to be objective while constantly claiming SOAD has nothing to do with Nu-metal. Check out a band like Nothingface, no turntables, in the beginning they too had "odd time signatures" and no rapping and heavy riffs. What is it that makes SOAD different? Nu-metal is considered "commerical" and SOAD is too "undergound for that. Oh wait, I wasn't supposed to get involved. Anyway I took away the mentioning that their wish to collaborate with Mike Patton indicated that they were influenced by MR Bungle. Mike Patton had at the time óf that inverview been in quite a few notable bands, heard of Faith No More? and seeing as SOADS first cd soundslike FNM with the funk removed and a little more metal injected I think you see my point.

Could someone archive this page already?

Coming out of Wikipedia's servers' ears. --84.249.253.201 16:47, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Flake released on SOADfans?

On the Untitled 1995 Demo Tape someone posted that Flake was released on SOADfans. Anyone else know of this?

Vandalism

Someone had deleted the whole article and replaced it with some childish insults. Just reset it. Hope thats ok guys. Sean —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.41.7.91 (talk) 02:21, 13 January 2007 (UTC).

More Vandalism

Someone had removed an enormous chunk of the article, and there were instances of random typing on the page, so I reverted it back. January 16, 2007.

GENRE!!!! PLEASE PUT YOUR OPINION HERE ON THEIR GENRE!

WHOEVER THE HELL LABELED SYSTEM AS EMO BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT! they can be classified as many different genres, but certainly not emo! Ella 08:14, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

The "whoever" is just a vandal. Revert it. —Wknight94 (talk) 12:09, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Stay off drugs man... WeirdoYYY 00:12, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Hahaha, that made me laugh out loud. Good thing someone fixed it tho, took like 5 seconds. 212.213.90.13 20:04, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

system is no way emo, there hard metal. ROCK ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!

who's on drugs?Ella 09:49, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

live show

i have heard that soad played at the big day out in australia one year but iam not sure which year it was but i thought id mention it since i didnt see it in the article i may be wrong though

snowblind and metro

my mate gave me som soad songs, 2 of them were caled snowblind and metro. i now hav all 5 soad albums but cant find them. iv looked everywer for them but stil cant find anthing about them. can som1 help me. is it just my mates given me some dogy tracks or is it somting elce —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.98.3.62 (talk) 20:38, 5 February 2007 (UTC).

Snowblind was on Native in Black or something, a Black Sabbath tribute album. Metro was on some soundtrack (Dracula 2000 maybe? I don't remember.). They're real tracks, I think. 212.213.216.212 10:28, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

They both are on "Storaged Melodies" album, which is propably collected by some fans. It contains the following tracks:

• 1. Storaged
• 2. Marmalade
• 3. Metro
• 4. Snowblind
• 5. Johnny
• 6. Will They Die For You
• 7. Feel Good
• 8. Shame
• 9. Starlit Eyes (also on Strait Up)
• 10. Mushroom Cult
• 11. Patterns
• 12. Don't Go Off Wondering
• 13. Friik
• 14. Blue
• 15. Dam
• 16. Honey
• 17. Temper

Some of the songs contain rap and some rap artists I don't know but those songs are still surely system's style and I can hear Serj singing at times. Great album anyway ^^ love the parts with Linkin Park style of rap, serj style of singing and umm... In Flames style of screaming/yelling. Absolutely a must for every fan. User268 --84.248.127.181 17:50, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

next tour in england

i lov soad, there my fave band, il pay loads to see them on stage but i cant find out if ther goin 2 be in england any time soon. cna som1 tell me if they are and wen. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.98.3.62 (talk) 20:41, 5 February 2007 (UTC).

They are on hiatus and arn't going on tour anytime soon.

soads best tracks

if steal this albu is B-sides ther bloody good ones. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.98.3.62 (talk) 20:45, 5 February 2007 (UTC).

*Avant-garde

Whoever came up with the idea of *avant-garde is a genius. Hopefully this satisfies the editors of the System of a Down wikipedia entry. :-) --Seraphim Whipp 00:37, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Why has the *avant-garde genre been removed? No one has discussed this or propsed why it should be removed. Surely naming System as *avant-garde is the wisest move because the band themselves don't even like to be given a genre. Their music has had such a lot of dicussion regarding what genre it should be placed in and this seems to cover it rather well without being a blanket term.

--Seraphim Whipp 13:28, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

"Avant-garde /ɑvɑ̃ gɑʁd/ in French means front guard, advance guard, or vanguard. People often use the term in French and English to refer to people or works that are experimental or novel, particularly with respect to art, culture, and politics.

According to its champions, the avant-garde pushes the boundaries of what is accepted as the norm within definitions of art/culture/reality."

First: It's avant, not avante. But anyway. SOAD's work is not that experimental. Yes, there are some complex rhythms and such, but it's not very experimental. And it's not really pushing the boundaries of what is accepted as the norm. I don't really think the genre fits SOAD. 212.213.90.13 15:46, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I disagree with you there. I think their music is experimental within the boundaries of music. The definition of the term avant-garde should be taken in a broader sense rather than literally. The term avant-garde is often used to refer to things that don't necessarily comply to the 'pushing the boundary' definition. To use a simple example, I described the book, The Unconsoled by Kazuo Ishiguro, to a friend as being avant-garde in it's style. The book doesn't particularly push the boundaries of what's accepted in society though...

• *Avant-garde (corrected as of 00:27 18 February 2007 (UTC)

--Seraphim Whipp 00:27, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Well... The first album was somewhat experimental. But Mezmerize and Hypnotize? Old School Hollywood maybe. Toxicity had, well, X. 36 on STA. SOAD has it's own "style", but I wouldn't say it's experimental.

Edit: I suggest you use alternative metal in the intro, but list avant-garde in the infobox if you want. Could you list what you see as experimental about SOAD?

212.213.90.13 16:34, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Sure I can do that :-). To be brutally honest I think the examples you listed are a bit obvious... (not to be offensive). I know those songs do have a different sort of sound to some of the other songs, but I don't think you're being specific enough. Basically I'll list the features and examples.

The things which enable System to be classed as avant-garde are these:

• Unusual instrumentation-"Highway Song" and "Question!"
• Use of crescendo and descendo-"U-Fig" (and in many others)
• Microtonality-"She's Like Heroin"
• 'Lalalalala' singing technique used in "Stealing Society"
• Whispering-"Chop Suey"
• Listen to the way the words are said/sung in bold "Fuck the System":-

Im, but a little bit bit bit, show!

But a little bit bit bit, shame!

But a little bit, bit, bit

Bit! bit! bit!

• Randomness of "Vicinity of Obscenity" pushes boundary of what we find acceptable as music.

Music has genres and these genres are what we find acceptable as music. Music must have a set pattern and form rather than be entirely random chaos. (This doesn't apply to all music, mainly music which we would expect to hear in the charts). For example:

Certain instrumentation defines music genres (in their most generic forms):

• Pop:-Synthesisers
• Rock:-Guitars/Drums
• Jazz:-Brass and Reeds

System could just be another alternative/metal/rock/heavy metal whatever (not to say I don't enjoy music by any of these other categories) band but they're not because they use a variety of techniques which makes their work different and arguably superior to other bands. System aren't safe and they don't rest on their talent. They push the boundaries of what we find acceptable but without limiting their audience.

I mean, you can see what types of music people listen to by reading this talk page. The whole dispute about System of a Down's genre shows that they've reached a wide audience. I think that's just another factor that makes them avant-garde.

There are more examples...I'm just lazy. :-)

--Seraphim Whipp 10:23, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Hmm... Now that you put it that way, I do agree that there are such influences. The whole genre? ...naah. I'd still put them as alternative metal, although with experimental rock already in the infobox, I think it's perfect. But that's just my opinion.

212.213.90.13 06:00, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I did take another read through on stuff related to avant-garde metal/rock and I have re-evaluated my stance. I agree with you, avant-garde genre does not, overall, suit System of a Down. Experimental or alternative are more accurate.

I'm just glad that the person who responded was not some troll who would just be detemined not to listen to other people's expressions. So I thank-you 212.213.90.13 :-)

--Seraphim Whipp 14:40, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

who the fuck puts emo

who keeps on putting emo/emotional rock and roll. if ur gonna put emo, put emo. even though i strongly disagree, put an actual genre. name 1 emotional rock and roll. rock and roll is like elvis so im guessing emotional rock and roll is elvis cutting his wrists. go edit some fall out boy you wikipedia whore.

I agree - Emo is a genre. It's a genre with emotional lyrics and punk roots. Emotional rock and roll, however, is just that. Rock and roll. Rock is emotional. There's no need to add it, because SOAD isn't all about emotion in their songs. Therefore I don't see Emo as a genre that fits SOAD.

212.213.90.13 05:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

whats wrong with suggesting a genre?

Listen up, firstly dont swear at other users who are contributing something to wikipedia just because you disagree with them. Secondly I see no problem with Emo Rock'n'Roll as a genre, the music by SOAD is very emotional, and its definately some kind of Rock. Obviously its neither EMO, or ROCK exclusively, but a mixture of both, whats wrong with EMO rock'n'roll? and "it's not a real genre" i'm sorry, but does something need to be listed with some kind of MUSIC INTERNET USERS STANDARDIZATION group before it can be listed as a genre?

Give me a break. If I had to suggest a genre, it would probably be Emo Metal, not Emo Rock'n'roll, that just sounds weird - Cuzz (from 93.4 the beat) corky3@hotmail.com

whats wrong with suggesting a genre?

Actually the more I think about it, Emo Rock'n'Roll actually does pretty well describe them. Emo - elements of Gothic and punk culture (definately visible) and Rock'N'Roll - elements of guitar music/vocals/beats... its definately not out of the question! - Cuzz (from 93.4 the beat) corky3@hotmail.com

Malakian said, “I'm not saying we're the most original band in the world, but I don't really feel that we fall into a heavy-metal category or a pure rock category. There's a lot of stuff mixed up into one.” - cut from the main entry in wikipedia, 2005 article.