Talk:Sweet Girl (EP)

Chart information?

Is there any record about the song or EP charting in Korea. 10th most watched K-Pop video in America for a month should translate to a chart entry in Korea shouldn't it?

Yes, it's been provided to the article already. Ss112 01:32, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Not the only "Sweet Girl"

Book sources for "Sweet Girl" are all for the Stevie Nicks song. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:35, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 18 December 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. The disambiguation page will be moved to the base title. (closed by page mover) GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 21:17, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

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Sweet Girl (EP) → Sweet Girl – No other article exists with this title; it's unnecessary disambiguation Ss112 05:31, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 11:57, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

• @Ss112 and In ictu oculi: Queried move request Anthony Appleyard (talk) 11:59, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
• Surely most English-speakers will think of the Fleetwood Mac song not a Korean song? In ictu oculi (talk) 09:34, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
• That doesn't have an article. I've requested to revert this move below. Ss112 10:26, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

@Anthony Appleyard: I later put this under "revert an undiscussed move", because it was moved without discussion last year. I don't think there's a time limit on reverting an undiscussed move, especially when the former namespace currently redirects to this one. What is the point of that? Ss112 12:10, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

The point is WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT rather than always have to go for the hassle of creating a dab page for every trivial article dropped into a baseline space. The question is whether this Korean EP can claim a Primary Topic slot. It's not just the Fleetwood Mac song, it's such a generic title that all kinds of topics pop up in books, and here in other articles. The baseline should more naturally be a dab. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:14, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Ss112: Please be very clear about this: Things do not have to have their own article, there only has to be a bluelink page to which the title can go, which mentions it. That is, The Dance (Fleetwood Mac album) is sufficient cause to trigger a disambiguation dispute and a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT question. There are many songs more famous than many EPs/albums, and not all of those songs have their own articles yet, and may never (we're all volunteers here with limited time). This is not a magical "gotcha" for claiming primary status for something that's marginally notable (just enough to survive as an article, which this one might not) but less notable than something else we can link to but as a subtopic of a broader article.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ<  12:55, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

• Groan, I can see this discussion is going to end with having to create a dab, might as well cut to the chase Sweet Girl (disambiguation). Do we know yet whether the Korean song charted? In ictu oculi (talk) 12:16, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

  Why would we do that? WP:TWODABS. Is there a third topic to disambiguate?  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ<  12:55, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose. No evidence this is better known that the song and for en.Wikipedia purposes the odds of that ever being true are approximately zero. Sweet Girl should redirect to The Dance (Fleetwood Mac album), per WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT, and a {{Redir|Sweet Girl|...}} hatnote can disambiguate that this EP article exists (or that Sweet Girl (disambiguation) does, someday, if that comes true because there are three linkable topics).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ<  12:55, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Where are you getting that the Fleetwood Mac song from a 1997 album, made past their most popular period, didn't chart and only an album track, is more well known than an EP that reached number two in Korea? Is this just an assumption because that's an English language song and this is an EP by a Korean act? It's not as if Korean acts are only popular in Korea. It's 2017 and Korean acts have charted in the US singles and albums charts several times. Ss112 13:57, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose Unfortunately there are, so dab created, but based on Gbooks I would say the Fleetwood Mac song is the Primary if there is one by a substantial margin. Youtube also brings up Stevie Nicks not the Korean song. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:26, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Is the only evidence that the Fleetwood Mac song from what is primarily a live album made in the 1990s when they were not at their most popular Google Books? You always bring up Google Books but where has this ever really been a dealbreaker in decisions on Wikipedia? Also, YouTube would bring up Stevie Nicks because she wrote and sung it. Ss112 14:00, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Maybe it's my cookies, I don't know. I'm not a great Fleetwood Mac fan, but even I had heard of the song. Tayo ft Zion "Sweet Girl" and Zumba "Sweet Girl" have more Views on YouTube than the Korean song. But really it's Books Books Books. Google Books have always been a "dealbreaker" in Wikipedia because what else are we going to base notability on? YouTube views. No. This Korean song doesn't pass that either. Because it isn't notable in English language sources. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:16, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

I meant is it said anywhere on Wikipedia in our guidelines or policies that Google Books results matter when determining what is notable? Also, no, I would not base notability on YouTube views; you brought YouTube up to gauge what search results were returning. As we all know, search results are arbitrary and are different for every user. I would also venture to say that it isn't notable in the English-language sources that you can find. Ss112 23:35, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Yes WP:PT WP:RS etc. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:18, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

WP:PT says it's one of several different methods Google offers to check what comes up, not the only or primary way to do so (it's listed last). Also, I mentioned notability, not merely what comes up in search results, because at least for me, I see plenty of non-notable topics showing up using a Google search for "sweet girl". The page WP:RS itself says nothing about Google Books. Besides, I'm not denying it's a reliable source. Ss112 09:25, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

It's the first and main method. But even without it none of the other methods will make this Korean song absolute majority global first topic for English speakers. In ictu oculi (talk) 19:15, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

And I'm still not convinced a few Google Books results make the Fleetwood Mac song—an album track that didn't chart from a live album made past their prime—the "absolute majority global first topic". Ss112 01:27, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose and move the DAB to the base name. No primary topic. Andrewa (talk) 09:04, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.