Talk:Survivor: Palau/Archive 1

Archive 1

Table modifications

Hey now, wait a second... don't you think the extraneous info on that table is a bit much? I was trying to make the table look like the tables for all the other seasons, and none of them had their information like that. The link to the Survivor website can be used for information about them, but I think cluttering the table with information that really not too many viewers of the show care about doesn't seem right. Mo0[talk] 00:05, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I agree. I put in state abbreviations to try to save space, but it really wasn't enough. The biography isn't needed in the table--heck, most of them probably won't even get pages.

—wwoods 01:54, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I disagree obviously (I'm the one who put it in there). The information is commonly referenced on the show and things like age and occupation have often been a major factor in forming alliances and the outcome of the game. It was already there in the article, why go out of your way twice to remove it? If the tables from previous years don't look the same, we should add information to achieve conformity not delete it. MK2 07:43, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The problem was that it made the table needlessly cluttered. I personally don't remember where any contestant has come from from any season, nor do I remember what job they held, or their age. It is simply not relevant to the gameplay, which is what this section currently covers. If you'd like to add a mini bio section, go ahead, but the table of standings doesn't really require, or need, all that extra information. Mo0[talk] 13:57, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Again, I disagree. I've been in several conversations about the show where people are saying things like "I like the showgirl. Which one is she?" or "Who's the old guy that looks like Ed Bradley?" or "I'm rooting for my fellow Houstonian." There are many cases where viewers have identified the characters by something other than their names. And conflicts between the "young" players and the "old" players have become so common they're practically a cliche.

And finally, as a matter of principle, I'd say that information is the purpose of this site. You may not personally be interested in it, but you shouldn't presume nobody else is.

But consensus is the guiding principle. We now have a 2-1 vote in favor of keeping the additional information out. But I think you'll agree that the three of us probably are not a representative sample. I'm going to put a short note in the main article so people will be aware that this issue is being discussed and have an opportunity to make their views known.MK2 18:01, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

And for the sake of anyone participating in this theortetical debate, here's the other table:

Constestant	Age	Occupation	Home	Tribe	Finish
Jonathan Libby	23	salesman	Dallas, TX	None	1st "voted" off - Day 1
Wanda Shirk	55	teacher	Ulysses, PA	None	2nd "voted" off - Day 1
Jolanda Jones	39	lawyer	Houston, TX	Ulong	3rd voted off - Day 2
Coby Archa	32	hairstylist	Athens, TX	Koror
Ashlee Ashby	22	student	Easley, SC	Ulong
Gregg Carey	28	business consultant	Chicago, IL	Koror
Bobby Jon Drinkard	27	waiter	Santa Monica, CA	Ulong
Katie Gallagher	29	advertising executive	Merced, CA	Koror
Caryn Groedel	46	attorney	Solon, OH	Koror
Angie Jakusz	24	bartender	New Orleans, LA	Ulong
Stephenie LaGrossa	25	pharm. sales rep	Philadelphia, PE	Ulong
Jennifer Lyon	32	nanny	Encino, CA	Koror
James Miller	33	steelworker	Mobile, AL	Ulong
Kim Mullen	25	student	Huber Heights, OH	Ulong
Ibrehem Rahman	27	waiter/model	Birmingham, AL	Ulong
Ian Rosenberger	23	dolphin trainer	Key Largo, FL	Koror
Willard Smith	57	lawyer	Bellevue, WA	Koror
Janu Tornell	39	showgirl	Las Vegas, NV	Koror
Tom Westman	41	firefighter	Sayville, NY	Koror
Jeff Wilson	21	personal trainer	Ventura, CA	Ulong

You know what? Let's try to find a middle ground; I don't want this debate to last forever and ever. How about we put all of the results-related things on the left side, and then after that all the bio information? Since this is really a results table first, let's keep that stuff on the right. I'd create that table myself, but I am REALLY tired and don't have the time to do it. Mo0[talk] 01:14, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Or just make it a list like Survivor: Pearl Islands instead of a table. Unless there's a lot of switching among tribes to be charted, the big graphic display may be overkill.

—wwoods 01:48, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

That would require waiting until the end of the season, though. I actually think the only reason that Pearl Islands hasn't been made into a table like the others yet is because it'd be kind of hard to add in the fact that Lil and Burton were both voted off, then came back. I was pondering that the other day, and couldn't think of a solution. All of the other tables have made it look rather nice; the Pearl Islands one just looks like a cut and paste job. The table may be big, but it's also a more elegant solution. Mo0[talk] 04:41, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I noticed in tonight's episode that Wanda and Jonathan are now listed as belonging to tribes in the opening credits. Should we change the table to reflect this? MK2 04:12, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

No, because they never did belong to tribes. I noticed that theydidn't change the opening credits at all, and everyone was scattered between both tribes instead of it being organized by tribe. Mo0[talk] 15:10, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure they did change the opening credits. In the first week, they didn't mention tribe names and listed everybody in alphabetical order. In the second week, they named the two tribes and listed the players (including those eliminated in the previous week) by their tribes. MK2 07:04, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I'll gladly admit defeat on this one if it turns out to be the case. I admittedly didn't devote 100% of my attention to the opening VIDEO as much as the SONG, which I adore. If it turns out they did re-order them, I hereby announce that I was a moron.

The differences between the Episode 1 titles and those in the rest of the series are: the tribe names aren't shown in the original titles; Ashlee and Jenn have new footage (Ashlee from the first reward challenge, Jenn the first immunity challenge), and they are the only folks whose buffs are shown (although Ashlee's Ulong buff is also visible in the episode 1 titles); and the order is changed in five places (Jenn was originally first instead of last; Kim was last instead of first; Tom was between Stephenie & Angie; Ian moves from before Wanda to after Wanda (Tom is now before Wanda); and Jeff moves from after Wanda to between Stephenie & Angie). Apart from that the order is as at present. I think (not certain though) that this is the third US season to change the titles after episode 1 (Thailand originally had all the women together and all the men together, with many contestants having different footage, but changed to the actual tribe layout for episode 2; and Vanuatu had the tribes mixed up originally when they were actually men vs women). And for international viewers the second series of Survivor UK dropped the first four contestants eliminated from the titles after the merge, although they returned for the final episode. Jxan3000 10:46, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

Ashlee

Before stating that she asked to be voted off and then quickly adding that it wasn't shown on the show, please provide evidence that this took place. The editing team wouldn't pass up on showing that on the show. Mo0[talk] 00:26, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Changes made early on March 17

1. Updated table.
2. Removed "Jeff's voice in the promo" text, since it only really served a purpose before the show started.
3. Removed little tidbit about a debate being had over the table, since that discussion has been at a standstill for 2 weeks now.

Mo0[talk] 07:22, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Angie's vote

Was there really any indication that Angie wasn't getting along well with the tribe as a whole? From post-boot interviews, this did not seem to be the case at all.--Benfergy 21:28, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)

But on opposite note, is there any reason to say that Angie had an alliance with Stephenie? I don't follow the spoiler sites, but I've heard second hand that Stephenie had an alliance with Bobby Jon and James but not Angie. MK2 04:37, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I don't really think it was anything other than the whole tribe not expecting Ib to get immunity. They scrambled, and Steph probably picked what were, at the time, the better numbers. Mo0[talk] 02:01, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I think Angie got along with the tribe fine. In fact, in Episode 5, when Angie was eliminated, they both voted together for Bobby Jon. However, in the re-vote, Stephenie changed her vote to Angie. The Ulong tribe didn't really have many alliances due to the fact that they were trying to keep the tribe strong, and it seemed that they usually made decisions as a group. Whitestorm17 (talk) 20:21, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

"Firsts"

Before running around and editing the "firsts" that were added, I'd like to ask what other people think are meaningful firsts or not. I've noticed about 3 of them are different ways of mentioning Ulong's tribe size. I just figured instead of being a renegade editor like earlier in the week, I'd ask what should be kept and what shouldn't. Mo0[talk] 14:05, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I was thinking the same thing. Certain facts I definately found to be insignficant.

1. Jolanda being the first African-American voted out first. I don't see the signficance of that. While some "demographic firsts" are relevant (i.e. Ibrahim as first Muslim contestant, Vecepia as first African American winner, etc.), somehow the position of first boot just isn't one that needs to be highlighted. It probably wasn't what Probst was reffering to in his "most firsts" comment anyway.

2. Reward being lost and won. I don't see it that way. They won the challenge (which was an immunity challenge anyway), so all they lost were materials from the challenge. Again, I think it's too trivial.

3. First challenge to decide who goes. I'm not sure. In Africa, the tiebreaker to decide who would go (between Lindsey and Carl) was decided by a quiz. Could this be seen as a challenge? Probst didn't refer to it(the quiz) as one, so the fire-starting challenge still might be the first. I'd keep it for now, but if others think differently, this 'first' can be removed too.

4. Stephenie sleeping alone. Redundant, the previous fact states the same thing.

So, yes, some changes could be made; any more thoughts,anyone?--Benfergy 04:06, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC)

I think that it really was the first Immunity Challenge that decided who left. The quiz was a tiebreaker between two people that had been voted for. If one vote had gone any other way, it wouldn't have happened. This challenge didn't involve votes at all. If anything I could see it being rephrased simply to mention that it was a challenge; the circumstances behind it are explained at the results table.

The other one that I saw was the one involving referencing previous Survivor seasons. While this would be nice in any other situation, that whole segment was an ad for Pringles. I'm sure people have been referencing people from previous seasons all the time, and it's just edited out.

One could very well be added that references Koror having the largest advantage in terms of members at the merge (there's going to be one next week. If there isn't, something's terribly wrong), with a 7-member advantage.

Wanda, Jonathan, and Bobby Jon are all over that list. Not sure how to take care of that.

I think I'm just having a gut reaction to having THAT MANY firsts there. Should we restrict it to the more notable firsts (since some of them are more important than others)? I personally don't see the one referencing 3 players leaving without being voted off as significant, since it's a series record, but Paschal English, Osten Taylor, Sue Hawk, Jenna Morasca, and Mike Skupin have all left the game without being voted off. It's happened before.

Let's see what else we can find. This is a good idea, since this has been a rather history-making season (unlike Vanuatu). Mo0[talk] 05:40, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Is it worth including that three of the last four Ulongs were from Alabama? MK2 04:42, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC) - I added it in as a trivia item. MK2 02:15, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Janu

A new entry says Janu Tornell is the 12th person to be eliminated without being voted off. Is this correct? I count her as being the 9th at most. Osten Taylor, Jenna Morasca, and Susan Hawk also quit. Michael Skupin left after he was injured. Jonathan Libby and Wanda Shirk were eliminated by not being picked for a tribe. Paschal English and Bobby Jon Drinkard were eliminated without an actual vote. That's only eight. Am I missing three other people? MK2 02:25, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

That was my fault. According to Template:Survleft, which is what I based the numbers on, she's the 12th Survivor not to be voted off. This list includes winners. I'll go and change that. Mo0[talk] 03:39, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The Voting Chart

It looks good, but is it going to get too big as the episodes continue? Maybe it could be broken into two grids; one for the pre-merge and one for the post-merge. MK2 14:17, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I didn't make the chart, but I run on 1600x1200 and it looks fine to me... it does look really big, and also REALLY hard to edit each episode. It's nice, but I think there could be an easier way to go about some of it, since there's a lot of row span and column span stuff. Mo0[talk] 15:48, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I think you don't have to make the voting chart. The Survivor website already has one. Why did you bother?

The above edit was made by Nanami Kamimura.

I wouldn't have phrased it so hostile, but I do agree that the voting chart isn't a real necessity when the website has it. Sure, the website has all of the information we do and then some, but that table looks like it'll be more of a pain to edit than it's worth. Mo0[talk] 15:19, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Not too bad. I only took me a minute to figure it out and another minute to update it. MK2 02:34, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

After editing it myself, I'd have to agree. This time only took me a while because the blank column confused me. I think I won't have a problem with it next week. Takes a few minutes, but it looks pretty spiffy. Mo0[talk] 02:50, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Nanami Kamimura, I reverted your change to this article because I felt it was a low blow to express disapproval of the voting chart as the season was progressing, not back up your statements, not even sign your original statement, then wait for the main editors to move on from what was essentially a finished and static article and execute your own changes without backing up your opinion. The consensus currently stands as the voting chart stays. If you'd like to provide a reason other than "It's on the website" as to why it shouldn't be there, go ahead. I personally prefer this chart to the bloated Flash version on the official website. Mo0[talk] 01:40, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Well, inconsistency is the key. If you wanted me to have the voting chart back, I'll go ahead and do it. But I dare you, Mo0, to make the voting charts of the past seasons of Survivor (except for Vanuatu's because it's already there). That's because they don't have any!

First off, it's bad form to edit someone else's talk page entry. Why are you censoring my usages of your name and not signing your own comments here? Second, I'd absolutely love to create voting charts for the remainder of the seasons. You're being amazingly militant about this issue all of a sudden, whereas before you were content to just register your discontent then leave. Why is that? Also, I just remembered something. I'd already reverted it for you, you didn't have to go and do it yourself. Do you really need to feel you're making the decisions, even when they've already been made for you? Mo0[talk] 12:55, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

What about the Immunity votes for Ibrehem?

Gregg Carey considered for deletion

Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gregg Carey if you wish to participate in the discussion of whether to keep, delete, or merge this contestant. --Rob 11:22, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Ulong

Hi, the AfD for the above article has ended with the suggestion that it be merged with this article. If someone knowledgeable in this area could merge it, that'd be great. Thanks! Babajobu 12:46, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Kim Mullen considered for deletion

This discussion is at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kim Mullen. --Rob 18:11, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Quitting

I don't consider Ashlee, Jeff, or Ian to have quit, and would remove comments that claim they did. I would reserve the term "quitting" for those who leave voluntarily without votes being cast, like Osten or Jenna and Sue on All-Stars. Thoughts, anyone? --Maxamegalon2000 05:07, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Ashlee, Jeff, and Ian fates where left up to the tribe. Even though Ian stepped down from the final immunity challenge, Tom could have voted for Katie, thus keeping Ian in the game. Same with Jeff and Ashlee, they could have been kept in the game. Whitestorm17 (talk) 20:29, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

external link to survivor.com

I want to add an external link to survivor.com. It was deleted as spam, but I don't think it's spam at all. It's got a ton of articles and screen captures. I was told to suggest that here. Is that the correct way to approach this? Yes, it is my own site, but I've been doing this for years. It's also linked on the home page for the Survivor TV show. This link is for the Palau articles only.

http://www.survivor.com/category/survivor-10-palau/ -- C331673 01:00, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

New Koror Color

I found a dark color for Koror, since their flag was a dark shade brown. Leave it this way. User:ScottAHudson

No, the older colour was a much better representation. This is more of a red colour, not at all similar to the brown that was in Survivor: Palau. I know you are trying to help, and all of our updates to the Survivor pages on Wikipedia are welcome and very much appreciated, just perhaps a little off in this instance. I will fix it, and a few changes to make all the Survivor pages more uniform, including changing "Kimberly" back to "Kim" as per the Survivor: Fiji talk page where names used on the official site are used here. Please do not take these changes to heart, I am only trying to help and do not be offended Survivorfan101 07:43, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Original Koror Color

No, the earlier one was a much better representation. The one we have now looks closer to Indian red; it wasn't that dark. Messy Thinking 21:15, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

To create it, you use bgcolor="brown", the quotes are optional. It's a darker brown, considering the flag was a dark brown and the buff was a brigheter brown. I would go with what color the flag is. ScottAHudson 13:13, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Wanda and Jonathan's Elimination

Has it ever been confirmed on what day they were actually eliminated? The show seems to make it seem like they were booted on Day 2, but I remember interviews saying that all the elimations on episode 1 of Palau happened on Day 3. I'm pretty sure it was Day 3. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.192.18.169 (talk) 16:44, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, I have no way of proving it, but I am pretty sure that it was on Day 2. At least, that was definitely the way the show made it seem. Whitestorm17 (talk) 20:32, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

It mentioned on the previously on Survivor in episode two that the elmination took place on day 2 when the tribes were chosen. I thought that I'd point that out.

65.214.69.226 (talk) 17:39, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

seven of the Survivor Palau cast are “pretty people from modeling agencies.”

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THIS ARTICAL. ? Just wondering.. :) OH AND BTW. WHY ARE YOU BEING SO NICE ABOUT THE STUPID SHOW? :D And this page needs receptoin. I want do know how the shows were reviewed.

Wanda: seven of the Survivor Palau cast are “pretty people from modeling agencies.” One of the first two people to leave Survivor Palau has revealed that more than one-third of the castaways are actually professional models who are appearing on the show after being cast through their agencies. When asked whether or not her crazy singing forced her elimination, Wanda Shirk tells TVGuide.com,

No. I know that they tried to portray that, but that is because they didn’t want it to come out that they stocked the show with young models. They did. Out of the 20 people that were originally cast, they cut seven and put pretty people from modeling agencies in instead, so that they would have the eye candy. We found that out while we were there [in Palau]. When we asked [each other], “What did you do for your audition tape?” some of the people would say, “Oh, well, I didn’t really do an audition tape.” —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.72.166.157 (talk) 07:13, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Is there any of way of knowing which seven castaways were models? I am just curious. Whitestorm17 (talk) 20:39, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Number of Votes

I don't know if there is a policy or a rule about how votes should be counted during tiebrakers, but as they way I see it, Angie received eight votes. She received three votes in the first tribal council against Jolanda. Later on, in Episode 5, she received two votes and tied with Bobby Jon making the total votes five. In the re-vote, she received three more votes and was eliminated. Therefore, she received eight votes. Any opinions on this? I have changed it, and I would like to know why, if it is reverted. Thanks. Whitestorm17 (talk) 21:00, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Immunity vote in Best and Worst Reward Ever

I noticed that there is no information regard who on Koror voted to give immunity to which members of Ulong. Does anyone have that information or is the reason it isn't included is because nobody knows who voted for who?

65.214.69.226 (talk) 17:39, 28 June 2013 (UTC)