Talk:Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels/Archive 1

Archive 1

Famicom Mini

What does the japanese text say in Super Mario Bros 2 famicom mini for the gameboy advance? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.155.211.36 (talk • contribs) 02:44, 14 June 2006 (UTC).

Top to bottom, left to right: "Famicom Mini," "Family Computer Disk System," "Super Mario Brothers 2". No idea what the "Cero" thing says. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.244.33.226 (talk • contribs) 04:41, 14 June 2006 (UTC).

What I mean is what does the words in the link below say:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/froggerzero/detail?.dir=/b156re2&.dnm=de92re2.jpg&.src=ph —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.249.3.95 (talk • contribs) 19:24, 14 June 2006 (UTC).

Alrighty, on the first two pictures, the text is:

    - Menu -
   Continue
   Reset
   Save High Score
   Sleep Mode

To cancel sleep mode
please press L+R+SELECT

Picture 3 (only the new text at the bottom):

Saves the current world number,
or the world number where you got "game over"
There is no previously saved world number

Picture 4:

High score and world number saved
     Please press a button

-- Rablari Dash 10:08, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Australian Release

I was not able to find any info about the mentioned Australian release - can anyone flesh it out (or remove it if it's not a true separate release)? Pellucidity 19:11, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I assume that Australian release date is for a supposed NES Classics version of this game. However, that was never released in Australia, so I guess the best thing to do is to remove that release date. --hirokazu 08:01, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

External Link to game maps — just like a MobyGames link

I strongly feel that the external link to the Super Mario Bros. 2 game atlas is justified. I agree, of course, that material with any sort of promotional agenda doesn't belong in that section, but that's not what I had added; rather, I directly linked to the data on Super Mario Bros. 2, within a large and well-established database of game maps. It's just simple, raw information -- NOT a game guide -- and it's an excellent resource for people who are interested in the game. I can't possibly see how this is a violation of WP:NOT. If you think it is, I'm afraid you'll also have to remove every single one of the thousands of MobyGames links on Wikipedia, as that is essentially the same type of resource.
I will re-add the link in the absence of a reply here after some time. --Ecksemmess 13:18, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

The MobyGames links are generally frowned upon, as well, except in those rare circumstances when the MobyGames entry for a particular title is particularly well-developed (which isn't all that often, honestly). The problem, as is discussed at length over at m:When should I link externally, is that "the web is already full past capacity of sites composed of links to other sites." If the information is relevant to the article, it should be worked into the article and the site included as a reference. If it is not relevant to the article, it shouldn't be linked at all. In this case, the site is a) probably a copyright violation, b) of questionable relevance to an encyclopedic overview of the game, and c) lacking any sort of contextualize or descriptive information to describe why it's relevant to anything. There are hundreds of thousands of sites that could be claimed to provide "simple, raw information." There are plenty of web directories which would serve as a much superior resource for listing a large number of these sites. Until then, Wikipedia is neither a web directory nor a game guide: the link in question adds little descriptive depth to the article, and is primarily useful as a aid to gameplay. Therefore, it fails on both counts. – Sean Daugherty (talk) 13:36, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm glad to see you have a thoughtful and reasonable defense for your point of view. Judging by the massive prevalence of MobyGames and similar links on Wikipedia video game articles, it would appear that the majority of those articles' editors disagree; however, I certainly can't demonstrate that such disagreement runs counter to the ideals of Wikipedia. It's actually quite a tricky situation, and I don't think it's worth getting into an extended debate here. I won't re-add the link, but I encourage anyone reading this to post something here and make their opinion known! --Ecksemmess 13:54, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Re: SMB Special

I don't see why the sentence re-added in this diff needs to be present, particularly in the lead section. Super Mario Bros. Special was ancient forgotten history until very recently, and we're not entirely sure how it fits with the other games. For example, both SMB2J and SMB Special were released in 1986 -- why is SMB Special the -first- sequel? And why is it related to this article enough to mention in the lead section? Andre (talk) 18:31, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Well if Super Mario Bros. Special was really released before this game, then it should be important to note that then to pretend this was the first sequel (& ignore the existance of Super Mario Bros. Special). Of course that's if Super Mario Bros. Special was really released before this game (I have never seen anyone state what date it was released beyond the year). SNS 16:59, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

There's no evidence either way, and besides SMB Special is a pseudo-sequel at best. Also, it really just doesn't deserve to be in the lead section. Since you don't appear to know what the order of release was, I'm going to not even say which one was first, and just take the reference out of the lead. Andre (talk) 01:45, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

... Anyone notice that the copyright date for Super Mario Bros. Special is 1985 and 1986? The original Super Mario Bros. 2 is just 1986. Also, the Mario Bros. Special and Punch Ball Mario Bros. games were pretty early as well... It's not totally conclusive, but I believe signs point to Super Mario Bros. Special having been released first.

Too hard for Americans??

I don't see what difference the country one lives in makes on difficulty. How is this game useful for Japanese but too hard for Americans?? Georgia guy 17:56, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

And I don't see how your question is useful on a discussion page for debates on changes to a Wikipedia article. If you want to discuss the game itself with other people, go to a forum. - Anon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.208.13.204 (talk • contribs)

They thought it would be too frustrating and were worried about causing another video game crash by gamers away. They weren't worried about this in Japan because the video game crash never happened in Japan. TJ Spyke 06:48, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was No move Duja► 10:54, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

• Support. Current title is somewhat awkward when it comes to the period followed by the colon, making the mistake of typing only a period or only a colon too probable of a mistake. Georgia guy 22:34, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
• Support The official release title should be used (SMB2j in this case), and not the weird translation. The Lost Levels should redirect to SMB2j instead. <3 bunny 00:18, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
• Oppose. In the English-language Wikipedia, we typically use the English-language names of things. It was never released in primarily English-speaking territories prior to Super Mario All-Stars, at which time it was retitled Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels. Your concern in the discussion about it being easily mistyped is simply solved by creating redirects. That is what redirects are for. --WikidSmaht (talk) 08:45, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
• Oppose per WikidSmaht. The official English language name is "The Lost Levels". -- Exitmoose 01:38, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
• Oppose. We are the English Wikipedia; we use the name most common in the English language; that is The Lost Levels. ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 09:13, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
• Oppose The English name (and most common name) is Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels. The onlyplace where that is NOT the name is in Japan. To CyberSach, would you want "Super Mario Bros. 2" to be moved to "Super Mario USA" just because that is the official title in Japan? TJ Spyke 06:46, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment. I would have voted to oppose per TJ Spyke if this were a requested move to simply Super Mario Bros. 2 with no dis-ambiguation suffix, but this is a proposed move to Super Mario Bros. 2 (Japan), and the reason is to avoid awkward punctuation, not US-centrism. Georgia guy 20:27, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
    • Cant any problems one might have with awkward punctuation be handled with redirects? As it is Super Mario Brothers: The Lost Levels and The lost levels amongst others already redirect here. Wouldn't you say the title of the page should match the name of the game, not what people are most likely to type into the search box? (which in any case, would be "the lost levels", not "super mario brothers 2 (japan)", which is awkward in its own way.) -- Exitmoose 23:56, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
  • Yep, any possible name somebody might type in for this game will bring them here. There is no reason this page should be at Super Mario Bros. 2 (Japan) when every other region of the world had it named Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels. TJ Spyke 07:55, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Animated Titlescreen

What's the use of having the Japanese Mario Allstars titlepic animated? It resizes to a thumb picture of over 3 megabytes(!) on this article. --84.85.136.201 16:20, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

World 9

I know that in the All-stars version of this game, entering a warp zone will cause you not to be able to get to World 9, and will cause you to forfeit World 9 if you already have it. Nevertheless, I believe that in the original Famicom Disk System (FDS) version of the game, entering a warp zone has no effect on whether you can enter World 9: You must beat all 8 castles to enter World 9 in the FDS version.

Try getting a hold of the original FDS version of the game, then play through and beat Worlds 1, 2, 3, and 4, then in World 5-2 take the Warp Zone to World 8, then in World 8-1 take the Warp Zone back to World 5, then play through and beat Worlds 5, 6, 7, and 8, and you will still get to World 9 after rescuing the Princess.

Essentially, in the FDS version of the game, after you beat World 8, the value of RAM address $7FA is compared to #$FF: if equal, the game will proceed to load World 9; if not equal, the game will proceed to reload the title screen. When you beat a world castle, the corresponding bit to that world in $7FA is set. For example, the lowest bit is set when you beat World 1's castle, the next lowest when you beat World 2's castle, etc., all the way up to World 8, which sets the highest bit. Entering a warp zone has no effect on the value of $7FA. Cornince 10:40, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

B-class

This article is not a B-class article. There is not a single source cited in the article. Until the article gains sources, it's only a Start-class article. --myselfalso 00:41, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Mariobros2japanbox.jpg

Image:Mariobros2japanbox.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 05:06, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

"On The Virtual Console"

It's worded very poorly. I don't want to flat out remove it, since it's rerelease is noteworthy, in my opinion. Just thought I'd mention how bad it sounds... "If you have a Japanese account on the Nintendo Wii..." --Evildevil 03:03, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree; I've tidied it up a bit. --Roddie Digital 21:37, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Super Mario Bros. 2 given rating on ESRB

On the ESRB's website, searching for Super Mario Bros gives 7 results, one of which is listed as "Super Mario Bros. 2 (Japan)", with a listed platform of "Nintendo". What do you guys make of this? Takuthehedgehog 02:43, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

probably for a Wii Virtual Console release.... most likely in Japan?

Not likely. Japan doesn't use the ESRB ratings system. Fingers crossed for a proper port of the original, I say! (Fryguy64 09:26, 1 July 2007 (UTC))

I think that the reason that the game has been given a rating by the ESRB is because Nintendo is planning to release the original Japanese version on Virtual Console, like they have in Japan and the UK (although if the release is like the UK release then it may be limited edition). Mariorulez 19:27, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Release dates?

Should the release dates for the United States and Europe be changed from "unreleased" to the release dates of Super Mario All-Stars? Jeff Silvers 04:54, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I think that the release date for the US should be set as the release date for "Super Mario All-Stars" because of the included improved remake, and the same for the UK but with note given to the fact that the original Japanese version has been released on the UK's Virtual Console (with changes made after 30th September 2007 (the time when the game will be withdrawn) to reflect the fact that it's gone (e.g. "was withdrawn on 30th September 2007" or complete removal of the note altogether)). Mariorulez 19:47, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Redundant sentences?

Under the section called "Rereleases and reissues", and then "Super Mario Bros. Deluxe" beneath it, there are two sentences that I believe describe the exact same idea.

"...and since the screen resolution of the Game Boy Color was smaller than the NES, the view distance of the player is reduced."

"Also, since the Game Boy has a smaller pixel area than the Famicom, the field of view in this version was somewhat smaller than that of the original."

These sentences are in consecutive paragraphs. It could be argued they're each valid since one references NES and the other Famicom, but it seems redundant to me. Garsh 05:00, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

possible minus world in super mario bros. 2/the lost levels

I will watch speedruns/timeattacks of this game.I notice that in 8-bit speedruns/timeattacks that when they do a glitch to run through the walls(as in super mario bros.) they will jump over the pipe that normally goes to world 4 (this is before the pipe is marked) THEN jump into the pipe for world 4(after the pipe is marked). this may just be players being worried, but this may mean an existince of a minus world in super mario bros. 2/the lost levels. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.197.157.15 (talk) 03:42, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Nope, this game does the warp zones differently. If I recall correctly, in the first game, by default the left and right pipes were loaded with the value 36 (don't remember if this is decimal or hexadecimal) while the middle pipe was a value that I don't remember. With this game, however, the left and right pipes were eliminated, thus eliminating the problem. You may test this out yourself though. 66.20.92.8 (talk) 20:44, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Use a gameshark to access World 9?

The page says you can use a gameshark to access Worlds 9 and A-D on Deluxe for the GBC. However, I have not been able to find any code that does such. Should that phrase be removed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.14.99.151 (talk) 02:01, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I removed it. In any event, Wikipedia is not supposed to be a game guide, and you can do a lot of weird things with a GameShark; it's simply unencyclopedic to mention them here. — TKD::Talk 02:10, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

wasnt there something on this page that said that badges where given to people who got to world 9? i cant find it anymore >.< —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.160.169.24 (talk) 05:57, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

WP:VG assessment

I'm going to keep the Start-class rating, mainly because you need to get some more information into those development and reception sections. Although its not "official" yet, I'd give the draft How to write a good video game article essay a look over in relation to the reception and development sections, it should give you some good pointers on how to put them together. Other than that, I can only really recommend copyeditting what you've got, as some of the prose could be improved. For example, four of the paragraphs in the gameplay section start with a game title, which isn't very engaging. Lastly, try organising the infobox a bit better. Use <br /> to create line breaks between the platforms, as they are rather messy in their current forms. -- Sabre (talk) 17:30, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Japanese characters?

I'm wondering what the Japanese characters mean in the final underwater section (SNES version I believe). It's not mentioned in the article and it'd be somewhat interesting to note. LikuX (talk) 10:53, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Article name

The Famicom version has NEVER been released with the title "The Lost Levels". Furthermore, there has never been a standalone release of this game with the name "The Lost Levels". That name only appears in the US and European versions of All-Stars. In every Japanese version, it's Super Mario Bros. 2, and in SMB Deluxe, it's Super Mario Bros. for Super Players. I don't see why the All-Stars name should be given priority above the original release name. The Famicom box is featured prominently on the page, the article is primarily about the Famicom version, and so it should use the Famicom name. Phediuk 16:30, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

We use the Lost Levles per WP:NC(CN). It's been released in two territories under The Lost Levels, so TLL wins. Conversely, Sega Mega Drive was released in two territories under the Mega Drive name, so it is named like so instead of being named the Sega Genesis. hbdragon88 03:10, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

On FF6 article its written: "Final Fantasy VI (ファイナルファンタジーVI, Fainaru Fantajī Shikkusu?), also known as Final Fantasy III for English audiences when it was first released", and its not name as FFIII. I think is the same thing, the correct name here is Super Mario Bros. 2, and should be mentioned as "Super Mario Bros. 2, known in Usa and Europe as Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels" and not "Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels, known in Japan as Super Mario Bros. 2", because its the correct name.(201.2.234.30 (talk) 01:24, 19 December 2008 (UTC))

This is not the same thing as all. Final Fantasy VI has been released under its original name in the US when it was ported to to original PlayStation and the GBA. This game, however, has never had an official English release as Super Mario Bros 2. FF6 is completly irreleveant.--76.66.187.242 (talk) 05:48, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Levels A-D

It's very fuzzy in the article, and something I've never seen made clear -- were levels 9 and A-D added for the SFam/SNES version or were they in the original? Melodia Chaconne 14:12, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

They were added, I believe. Andre (talk) 21:37, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

As noted in the current version of the article, 9 and A-D were in the original Famicom version. —Matthew0028 07:55, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

You need to beat the game 8 times (and thus get 8 stars on the title screen) -- Pellucidity 19:07, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I have this game on cartridge and disk. To get to world 9, you have to go straight through with no warping. To get A-D, you have to beat world 8 a total of 8 times. Then, you have to press start and "A" at the same time to go to world A.--76.235.85.254 (talk) 03:15, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

How many bits were the original Japanese cartridge?

320 KB? 2 MB? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.188.17.249 (talk) 19:44, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

The original FDS version wasn't in a cartridge, but on a diskette. The diskette had exactly 65,500 bytes of storage space on one side (almost 64KB). If I recall looking at the bytes the game probably did not use about 20,000 of those bytes and it used only one side of the diskette. Cornince (talk) 20:42, 17 February 2008 (UTC) (correction made -- Cornince (talk) 21:46, 26 February 2008 (UTC))

The game was ported onto cartridge after originally on disk. It, however, does NOT have the ability to save the stars on the title screen as the disk does, so it always has the 8 stars to unlock Wolds A-D. Also, it was a 4--76.235.85.254 (talk) 03:18, 20 December 2010 (UTC) MB cartridge.

Article title

Is Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels a proper name for this article? I know its the title used in Super Mario All-Stars, but what it makes it more valid name for article than Super Mario Bros. For Super Players, aside for the fact All-Stars came before Super Mario Bros. DX? Why not do a proper disambiguation call it Super Mario Bros. 2 (Japanese video game) or something similar? Jonny2x4 (talk) 13:46, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, let's see...

1. It's available from the start in SMAS, while it's unlockable in SMBDX.
2. It was already re-released, the NES version, on the VC with this title. - The New Age Retro Hippie used Ruler! Now, he can figure out the length of things easily. 03:46, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Also there was a failed requested move a few years back and that was before its Virtual Console release. I see little chance of success now since the only major change since that request has been a rerelase under the lost levels name.--76.69.170.88 (talk) 04:11, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

--76.235.85.254 (talk) 03:22, 20 December 2010 (UTC)== Final link ==

The final comment that Super Mario Brothers 3 would have never been produced if the Lost Levels wasn't as difficult as it was is wrong. They're using an article from Nintendo Power, which I have, and have read over. NOWHERE in the article does it even mention Japanese Super Mario Brothers 2 (Lost Levels), and its difficulty. This statement needs to be removed, because the comment is FALSE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.235.85.254 (talk) 03:21, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Save feature on famicom mini rerelease?

I've heard that there is a save feature on the GBA rerelease, is this true and should it be added to a section? Signothetymes (talk) 23:47, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

World 9 "Fantasy World" Confusion

Hey, there. I just thought I'd drop in and say that the description of this world in the article is very ambiguous. Was it an intentionally added, unlockable world, just like worlds A-D, or more of a glitch world, like its predecessor's "minus world"? Also, did it comprise of 4 levels, like the other worlds, or was it a single, stand-alone level? I'd appreciate some clarity, maybe someone more knowledgeable than myself can respond and make the appropriate changes to the article... Thanks in advance, RememberThisAccountName (talk) 19:27, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

I never got there myself, but it's intentional. Finish Worlds 1-8 without warping, and you will get there. By the way, it has four levels. A source will probably be needed, though. --Darrman1 (talk) 12:09, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Not Difficult

I don't see how this game was rated as being as difficult as it was. I was able to beat it inside of an hour when I was like...10.EnglishEfternamn_*t/c* 22:36, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

• Um... That's off topic. Wikipedia talk pages are for discussing improving articles, not how quickly you finished. Darrman (talk) 05:59, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Japanese characters on 9-4

I know nothing of Japanese, what is "アリガヒウ!"? It is written in blocks on 9-4. --Pie-jacker875 (talk) 14:20, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Actually, the message written is *アリガトウ！*, which means *Thank You!*. --Vaati the Wind Demon (talk) 15:09, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Oh, thanks. I figured it was something like that. Maybe someone should throw something in the article in the part about World 9.--Pie-jacker875 (talk) 19:34, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Rename article?

I'd like to add that I am in favor of making a separate page for the Japanese version of the game and the US one, or at the very least having separate sections on this page to describe both. There are some notable differences between the two. One I can think of off-hand: Luigi doesn't have the superior jumping ability in the Japanese version (he is exactly like Mario, like in the first game), they added this to the US version because by the time they finally ported it over Luigi was known for his higher jumping (a feature that actually originated in the game that later became the American Super Mario Bros. 2). There are other points to contend that I can't think of right now, but at the moment the page does not distinctly inform the person reading it of the history of this game. The page for the American Super Mario Bros. 2 does a better job at educating the history of this game then it's own page does. This should be fixed.—Preceding unsigned 12:27, 19 December 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.241.101.224 (talk)

This is pretty US centric. I think the title of the article should be renamed "Super Mario Bros. 2 (Japan)", with Lost Levels as a redirect.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Headcase88 (talk • contribs) 01:40, 23 March 2005

It's better to avoid those parentheses when we can, and this a clear title, and the title that the game is known by most in English. Andre (talk) 02:05, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)

Considering this is the English Wikipedia, I strongly disagree. K1Bond007 05:01, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)

Then why is Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Mega Drive) named so? The fact that it is the English version doesn't detract from the fact that the game came out first in Japan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Headcase88 (talk • contribs) 04:29, 1 April 2005

But there aren't any alternate English titles for it. Andre (talk) 03:14, Apr 2, 2005 (UTC)

Good point.--Headcase 03:40, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Why don't you just change it to Super Mario Bros. 2: The Lost Levels

Because nobody calls it that. Because most non-Japanese players know it by "The Lost Levels," the title of this article should reflect that. Jeff Silvers 21:11, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I explained further down, starting my own 'thread' in this same section, why the logic here is incorrect when considering all of the facts, and concluded the article should be renamed back to the the (English version of the) Japanese version. Namely, this game is an SNES port to the NES (Famicom) original, and an inaccurate one. Please read it. 173.252.35.215 (talk) 05:08, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Sonic the Hedgehog 2 had a long odyssee of moves because there exist 2 different games for 3 consoles with (all together) 4 names. --32X 15:09, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

The game is known as Super Mario Bros. The Lost Levels even by today... it should be kept. --FlareNUKE 09:02, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I could see it going either way. This article is primarily about the Japanese version of the game, with details of rereleases as a seperate section. Lost Levels is only the title in the All Stars version (the other version, in Mario Deluxe, had a different name), and the name wasn't invented until 7 years later. So, my vote would be to move it. —Matthew0028 08:17, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Not really, In Super Mario Bros. Deluxe it was The Lost Levels which is pratically the same title. I haven't seen it been called “Super Mario Bros. 2” ever in the United States, when it's released it's always disguised as some add-on to the original. --FlareNUKE 07:54, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I think that the name of the article should be kept as "Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels" but with "Super Mario Bros. 2 (Japan)" as a redirect (if it isn't already) because this is the English Wikipedia and we call it "The Lost Levels", "Mario Bros. 2" would only be accurate for the Japanese Wikipedia. Mariorulez 19:36, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

In Super Mario Bros. Deluxe, it was Super Mario Bros.: For Super Players... "For Super Players" was also the subtitle added to it in the Japanese version of All-Stars (Super Mario Collection), making it "Super Mario Bros. 2: For Super Players" in that version... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.101.167.221 (talk • contribs) 20:20, 3 December 2006 (UTC).

I propose renaming the articles like this... Super Mario Bros. 2 (or Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels) would be "Super Mario Bros. 2: For Super Player" (as the game is retitled for Super Mario Collection, sharing the subtitle later seen in Super Mario Bros. Deluxe), and Super Mario Bros. 2 (or Super Mario USA) would be listed as "Super Mario Bros. 2: Mario Madness" (after the subtitle on the game's packaging).208.101.160.214 12:07, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

The problem is there are TWO games called Super Mario Bros. 2: the one in Japan (released in the US as Lost Levels) and the one that in the US that was based on Doki Doki Panic--BruceGrubb (talk) 08:14, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

How is calling this article The Lost Levels U.S.-centric when other English-speakers know the game by the same name? If anything, moving it to Super Mario Bros. 2 would be Japan-centric --Evice (talk) 01:03, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Wow, Japan-centric! We wouldn't want that on a game that was written, developed, and puiblished only in Japan by a Japanese company! talk about confusion. Someone will try to rename the 'German Air Force' page to 'Luftwaffe' next! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.27.85.248 (talk) 11:27, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Bad example, since this is an English Encloypedia we would use the name best known name to the English speaking world and in the case of this name and the air force mentioned the current names are the best known. In fact the move you mentioned would actually be in direct opposition to the consensus on this page since we would changing a name that is best known to the English speaking would for a name that is not well known. Most if not all games originally from Japan use official titles from English speaking titles and I rerely see anyone complain about any of the other games so I don't see why this game should be an exception to common practice. In fact, the only cases I can recall a game keeping its original Japanese name when the game was released under a different name in English is when remakes use the original names (final fantasy IV and VI) or the original name is used in other English speaking countries (Yoshi's Universal Gravitation). Neither of these cases apply here. --76.66.180.175 (talk) 06:05, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

I misread the first part. I would like to say however just because the airforce article uses Luftwaffe does not mean that we have to use the Japanese name of the game.--76.66.180.175 (talk) 19:16, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

It should be renamed to the proper English version of the title of the actual original game in Japan, which is Super Mario Brothers 2, because The Lost Levels is a remake and a port. The characters (as mentioned above) do not act the same way, and it even contains a jumping bug where Mario continues to accelerate upward after breaking a block instead of bouncing downward. The momentum is not reflected downward. Players, especially any skilled or expert players, notice this flaw. This is not the same game, The Lost Levels that is, it is a remake. It is very close and likely even uses the original code somewhat or was based off the original code, but it is a remake with new graphics, extra backgrounds, and changes in the gameplay. The name of the port should not be used as the name of the article of the original game. It does not matter that the average English speaking player knows of the remake/port more than the original. In fact, the remake/port came out on a different system, the SNES, which within the game clearly indicates the game was from Japan for the NES originally. So all gamers actually know the truth anyways. Regardless, none of this matters, as the game is a port and you do not create articles on ports as if the original is the odd one out because it is misleading, especially when it is a untrue remake with gameplay changes and bugs and graphic differences. The port should be mentioned after the fact, the same as the NES Mega Man 1/2/3 ports to the Sega Genesis were. 173.252.35.215 (talk) 05:02, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Nonetheless, Lost Levels is still the name used in English to refer to tbe game. DarkToonLink 05:30, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

Not to mention that there are not any rules on Wikipedia that even remotely suggests that we should not use the officially announced titles for English speaking countries if that title is a port. It`s the same reason that we use Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney over Gyakuten Saiban (video game) despite the fact that we first got the DS remake.--174.93.163.194 (talk) 04:08, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Also, before anyone brings it up, Mario 2 being English does not make it the official English title since it was not released as such from in a English speaking nation. This type of attempt has been refuted at both. O-Parts Hunter and Case Closed where the consensus was to use them over 666 Satan and Detective Conan.--174.93.163.194 (talk) 04:48, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Japanese Title

Something that has come to light recently is a disagreement I have with Richiekim in regards to the Japanese title of the game in the lead of the article. It is my view, and the view represented in the article for some time, that it should appear as "Super Mario Brothers 2 (スーパーマリオブラザーズ2, Sūpā Mario Burazāzu Tsū)", given that this is the primary title on the packaging illustrating the article. It makes no sense to change it to "Super Mario Bros. 2 (スーパーマリオブラザーズ2, Sūpā Mario Burazāzu Tsū)" given that the full 'brothers' is quite clearly spelled out in the rōmaji parameter of the template. If a compromise is really required, I guess Super Mario Bros. 2 (スーパーマリオブラザーズ2, Sūpā Mario Burazāzu Tsū, "Super Mario Brothers 2") might be appropriate, since I can't deny Super Mario Bros. 2 is a common name for it after all... Thoughts? DarkToonLink 06:53, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

@DarkToonLink and Richiekim: Hi there. "a" common name? It's the common name and the natural name. That's the name, period. "Super Mario Brothers" is not the name. Based on your description, it's just a picture on the box, like "Mario Madness" is on a certain other similar product. Are you referring to the red text on File:Mariobros2japanbox.jpg? Non-English language speakers are going to have to expand the abbreviation because they're displaying not an actual word but a rough approximation of the pronunciation. They're bravely going all mushmouth on it, like some of us do with theirs.  ;) It's not their native word, so of course they have no abbreviation. So my assessment is that there is no problem. I'm not a Japanese speaker and I don't comb over all the products or translate. Am I missing something? Thank you, sir. — Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 09:13, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

I mainly take issue with the fact that it was changed to 'Bros.' even though the Japanese it was translating clearly said the full 'brothers'. I understand the point you're making, since it is in the title screen and all, which is why I suggested the compromise translation. It is called 'Bros.' right in the article title, though. Also, plenty of people do say 'Mario Brothers' in real life so that's not really an issue. I felt it better to discuss the change here rather than in back-and-forth RVs, but if everyone is in support of the change, then of course I accept that. DarkToonLink 10:59, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

@DarkToonLink: Hey there. Well, like I said, you're still mistaking the word for its abbreviation. The abbreviation is not a new word. You don't seriously enunciate "bros."; you pronounce "bros." as "brothers". If you did literally speak "bros.", it would be as a whimsical slang. It's not actually a word. :) I hope that helps. — Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 11:19, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

On that point, I actually do hear a lot of people say 'bros.' as a short form. People do it for Smash Bros. as well. I've heard Shibata say it in a Nintendo Direct, too, but I don't think the short form is actually ever pronounced in Japanese. DarkToonLink 11:25, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Here is a more detailed looked at the Japanese cover. As you can see, the golden seal clearly says "Super Mario Bros 2" in English. Also, the title screen also says "Super Mario Bros 2".Richiekim (talk) 14:53, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Yeah that's what I thought, and that's additionally trumped by the fact that Super Mario Bros. 2 just is the product's natural name. Which, by the way, is essentially why everyone in the several threads up above us on this page has pointed out the obvious fact that this article's correct title is "Super Mario Bros. 2 (Japan)", and should have a section titled "Remakes" with a subsection titled "The Lost Levels". Thank you for the information.— Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 15:09, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This review is transcluded from Talk:Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jaguar (talk · contribs) 20:49, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

I think I'll have this to you by tomorrow (I've been keeping an eye on this article's progress for a week) ☠ Jaguar ☠ 20:49, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Initial comments

• "Unlike the original, the game is single-player" - its predecessor was single-player too?
• "The Lost Levels was the most popular game on the Famicom Disk System, and sold about 2.5 million copies" - does this include its ported copies or just the Famicon original?
• Lead summarizes the article well so this meets the GA criteria
• "Some of the game's levels require "split-second" precision" - WP:OVERLINK "level"
• "Worlds A through D are accessible when the player plays through the game eight times, for a total of 52 levels" - are these worlds completely seperate from the original eight? If so could the differences be mentioned for the reader here?
• No hyphen in the Rereleases section? (Also mentioned again in this section)
• "The 3DS version released July 25, 2012" - released on July 25
• "and Ultimate NES Remix (2DS and 3DS)" - why mention 2DS here if it's a variant of the 3DS?
• "Luigi received his "first distinctive character traits" in The Lost Levels: less ground friction, and the ability to jump farther" - is this relevent to the reception section? Luigi's new characterisation was mentioned twice previously in the article?

References

• No dead links

On hold

Very good article; the prose is clean and enjoyable to read. This could easily make GA if all of the above are addressed. On hold for the standard seven days, thanks ☠ Jaguar ☠ 21:12, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

@Jaguar, thanks for the review! I think I got everything, if you can take a look. "Level" appears to be linked once in the lede and once in the prose, which should be okay (unless I missed another). "Rerelease" is unhyphenated in NOAD, so I go with that. The "released July" should be okay—WP doesn't allow for July 25th, so it has the same effect. And on Luigi—it's the sorry game's only legacy, so I thought it bears repeating. I don't consider repetition in the lede to count against the other mentions (since the lede should be a summary) but I could take out the Legacy section mention if you insist. This said, I think it's worth repeating, especially for those unfamiliar with what it would even mean for Luigi to be differentiated. czar ⨹ 02:01, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for addressing them czar! I don't know why I have a love of old fashioned hyphens, maybe I'm an old man trapped inside an eighteen year old body... I also thought that "on July 25" would be consistent with the rest of the article but nevertheless the whole thing meets the GA criteria. Well done on bringing this one to GA. Could I ask a small favour? If you're not too busy would you be willing to review Banjo-Tooie? I have it at GAN and I've made it ready (somewhat compact), but it's OK if you don't have the time. Thanks again ☠ Jaguar ☠ 12:20, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

IGN list

The Lost Levels was on IGN's list of top 125 Nintendo games. This is notable and should be mentioned in the article, but it's in the lead, which I disagree with because:

1. We normally don't say what lists games are on in leads. An example: Sonic Rush was named a "Cheer" in IGN's "Cheers and Tears" list for DS games, that's not and should not be in the lead there.
2. It's sort of redundant; The Lost Levels has been on several lists like these in the past (like this one).

~ TheJoebro64 (talk) 23:34, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

@TheJoeBro64: I can agree with something like this. It's a little bit weird having something like that in the lead. We can shove it in the Legacy section. Manfred (talk) 08:16, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

• Askmen.com is not a reliable source... Show me what other vetted video game sources list Lost Levels as a similar top game and I'd be fine with generalizing the statement. Otherwise the statement on its own, given IGN's stature, gives the reader important information about the legacy of the title. In general, plenty of WP articles mention such "top list" information in the lede when it gives a summative/definitive summary on the game's legacy, and list of top releases for a platform is completely incomparable to a "cheers and tears" list. This WP article already had a GA review with the sentence as it was—do not remove it until you have a wider consensus. czar 15:57, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/gaming/what-to-play/the-15-hardest-video-games-ever/super-mario-bros-the-lost-levels/ ~ TheJoebro64 (talk) 17:57, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Also, I'd like to point out that Donkey Kong Country returns was placed towards the bottom of Game Informer's top Wii games list; that's not mentioned in the lead there. ~ TheJoebro64 (talk) 18:19, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Not sure where you're getting these WP article examples—why would DKCR be an analog? It hasn't been seriously edited in half a decade, doesn't have a legacy section, and whatever Game Informer list you're citing isn't even in the article? The point is easier on articles that have been included in multiple lists of top games for the console so we can say... the game was listed in multiple lists of top games for the console. Your other edits have been reverted per BRD—again, do not restore them until you have consensus for the change czar 18:31, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

@Czar: Well, this is only one of the few games on IGN's top 125 that are labelled with the lead like that... IGN does a list-kind-of-thing all the time, to the point where it gets redundant. I believe putting the bit in Legacy is the better option, but wherever it goes, the main thing is that it should be in the article somewhere. Manfred (talk) 00:05, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

The lede is supposed to summarize the article—every claim it makes is sourced in the rest of the article (at least it is in this article, as I wrote it—as for other articles, it's only in theory). I highlighted that factoid from the Legacy section because it tells the reader about the game's legacy in a sentence: that apart from its famous difficulty, it is at least recognized in another major source as a defining game of the console, but not one of the most important (bottom of the 125). The point is less about IGN itself or the importance of that singular list, but the context of how the game is remembered. This was the only list I found. I'd be fine with writing something else along these lines, but cannot generalize the sentence without more examples (i.e., similar lists). If either of you want more feedback on this, feel free to request outside feedback at WT:VG. czar 02:33, 26 April 2017 (UTC)

Super Mario Bros 2.: The Lost Levels is a SNES remake of the original SMB2. The article should be called Super Mario Bros. 2, as that is the original name of the game.

It's needlessly confusing that this article is named after the weird SNES re-release. I legit thought at first that it was gonna be mostly about the remake, but no, this is an article about SMB2. So that should be the name of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mildare (talk • contribs) 09:31, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

That is obviously correct, and the article is presently written as a giant lie in a wrongheaded attempt to conform to some twisted idea of technical consistency within the English Wikipedia. It’s just not even remotely the way to do it. I’m pretty sure this was discussed somewhere in the talk page archive. — Smuckola(talk) 18:13, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

I think it's because The Lost Levels is arguably the WP:COMMONNAME, as it was only released as SMB2 in Japan. The American game is more widely known as SMB2, not Doki Doki Panic or Super Mario USA. I don't think this page should be moved. JOEBRO64 18:27, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

With all due respect, guys, is this debate still a thing? Even after the original FDS version was made available overseas, it's been consistently named by Nintendo of America and Nintendo of Europe as Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels. Since that's the official naming for the West, that's how it's called here in Wikipedia and the vast majority of websites outside Japan; so the current name stays. Besides, for the one arguing that said name causes confusion between the original version and the All_Stars remake, calling it "Super Mario Bros. 2" would vcreate an even bigger confusion between this game and the other Super Mariop Bros. 2. Call it a "giant lie" or "wrongheaded attempt" if you want. No one cares. But you'll need a better reason that just "it's confusing" for a potential rename of this article. --2601:701:300:4BC0:C8FA:662:4501:275C (talk) 18:08, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

It’s defiantly not a giant lie (or any sort of lie for that matter) since every rerelease of the game has used the Lost Levels name meaning that it is clearly what the title best known as in the West. If anyone disagrees they are free to open a move request but it will almost certainly fail because since the last one in 2007 (which almost everyone opposed) the only thing that had changed is there have been more rereleases using the Lost Levels name meaning the case is ever weaker now than it was back then.--69.157.252.96 (talk) 04:07, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

It should be Super Mario Bros. 2(Japan) or Super Mario Bros. 2(North America)

No, it shouldn't. Read the 4th post above. And please sign your comments next time. --190.124.30.42 (talk) 23:09, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

It should definitely be Super Mario Bros. 2(Japan) and Super Mario Bros. 2(North America). — Preceding unsigned comment added by TonePube (talk • contribs) 14:53, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Since the Lost Levels has come out in the West almost 30 years ago ever rerelease has maintained that name so the current title is clearly the WP:COMMONNAME and any attempts to move it will likely fail like the 2007 move request where the only thing that has changed has been more releases under the Lost Levels name. Long story short, this ship has long sailed.--65.93.195.118 (talk) 06:39, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

You're not even trying anymore. It has already been explained extensively why the article won't be renamed, and the reason many of you conveniently ignore is that even the original FDS version has been known with the Lost Levels subtitle since 2007. End of the story. Time to deal with it and move on. 206.62.162.123 (talk) 03:09, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

Lost Levels refers only to the Japanese Super Mario Bros 2 included in the Western release of Super Mario Collection called Super Mario Allstars, where Super Mario Bros 2 was renamed to the Lost Levels due to Super Mario USA being released as Super Mario Bros 2 in the west. These days, ambiguity is resolved by referring to the Japanese Super Mario Bros 2 or the Western Super Mario Bros 2. On the other hand, Lost Levels specifically refers to the Allstars release of the game which is of a time before the knowledge of Western Super Mario Bros 2 originally being a game released as Doki Doki Panic in Japan. Clinging to the name Lost Levels harks back to an age where the people of USA were often nasty towards other countries outside the USA expressing their jealousy as ignorance and insults, treating these countries as if they either didn't exist, were backwards somehow when compared to the USA or simply don't matter, despite the USA culture stealing heavily using technology and education from outside countries. Lost Levels is a very small part of the history of the Japanese Super Mario Bros 2, and it is a shame that a small minded few would choose to try to rewrite history of the game to fit the USA's tiny window of experience with the game at the cost of Wikipedia's integrity, damaging its value as an international platform 2A02:C7E:130E:DD00:B867:8AD0:9D29:4523 (talk) 01:31, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Have you even read your own post? Because it has to be the most appalling thing I've read in a Wikipedia talk page in ages. The whole subject has nothing to do with US culture or wiki integrity or damaging some sort of value; or anything needlessly philosophical, for that matter. The Lost Levels has that name for both versions (All-Stars and FDS) in the West because that is the official name given by Nintendo, and on top of that the vast majority of non-Japanese Super Mario fans refer to the FDS version with the same name as that of the All-Stars version. So your argument about the added subtitle only being valid to the SNES version is incorrect, and has been incorrect since 14 and a half years ago. There's no need to be so pedantic about it. It's pretty obvious that you and other users hate the Western SMB 2 and want to reinstate its name to a game that it's only identified with it in Japan. This is the English Wikipedia, and as such it relies on English-language sources wherever available in order to go by the names things are known as in the English Language. And the Anglosphere has acknowledged the subtitle given to the Japanese SMB 2 in the West, no matter how much you and a small minority of Mario purists wished otherwise. Pedantries like this are why I stopped being a registered user since many years ago. 206.62.171.246 (talk) 00:54, 13 April 2022 (UTC)