Talk:Stuttgart Beer Festival

The German WP article lists nine current tents (at least seven of which could be considered "beer tents"). Purely in the interest of science, I will visit the Festival this weekend; I'll pay extra attention to the number of tents and change this article the next day. --Greenb 21:27, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Stuttgart Beer Festival?

I'd like to know why this is called "Beer Festival". This festival has never been held to celebrate beer, there are five tents where they sell beer and two tents offering wine, since Stuttgart is in the German wine growing region. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spongebob223 (talk • contribs) 23:00, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

this article should be named Cannstadter wasn/ wiesn Palatinate 15:50, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was No Move. --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 10:51, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

This article is a misnomer. The festival that takes place every spring and autumn, "Frühlingsfest" and "Herbstfest" is primarily a festival and fair of the people or "Volksfest", with beer and wine to boot. It is not a beer festival. See above comment.

Suggest leaving this comment here until 18 March 2008, pending objections, after which the article should be moved. BuzzWoof (talk) 18:57, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

• Stuttgart Beer Festival → Stuttgart Volksfest — The event is quite simply not a beer festival - misnomer —BuzzWoof (talk) 19:13, 18 February 2008 (UTC) BuzzWoof (talk)

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Is that the best name? Here's what I get in Google (English language only, no wikipedia):

• Stuttgart Beer Festival = 2060 (includes germany-tourism.de)[1]
• Stuttgart Volksfest = 616
• Cannstatter Volksfest (as on Germany Wikipedia) = 5300
• Cannstatter Beer Festival = 4 (but includes stuttgart-tourist.de, on title bar of page)[2]
• Cannstatt Beer Festival = 779 (again includes stuttgart-tourist.de, main article)[3]

Even though "Volksfest" does not literally translate to "Beer Festival", if that it how it is being sold to English speakers by official tourism departments of Germany then current title is not "wrong". Remember the pagename should be "what English speakers would most easily recognise"; the 'official/correct' name should appear in the article itself. Horsesforcorses (talk) 22:03, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

That's some good research that'll bring us nearer to making the right deceision. I take your argument about "what official tourism departments" use, though having worked in advertising with many such departments myself for years, I think you'll find they often get cheap translations done of materials and don't have much time to really think about official terms in x foreign languages. The 5300 hit on Canstatter Volksfest would also indicate that something along the lines of Volksfest would be most approprate.

I still feel, though, that Beer Festival is overegging the limited role of the beer tents at the festival. It's a festival first and booze up second (including the Weindorf!). fwiw. BuzzWoof (talk)

How about Stuttgart Festival? Volksfest ain't English. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:25, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Nice idea, but it could then be confused with festivals more directly linked to the city of Stuttgart (eg, the Stuttgart Summer Festival [4]) rather than this festival which is specifically on the Wasen in the suburbs . I see no problem with the word being German, as long as this is explained in the article (after all, Oktoberfest is hardly English!). We also need to think about the German term (and wikipedia article [5]), which also has a much closer link to the suburb rather than the city of Stuttgart. Whatever we call it, it'll be a compromise. A bit like the Germans calling the football teams in London silly things like "London Arsenal". Brits all know it simply as Arsenal. So maybe we call it "Stuttgart Volkfest" with redirects from "Cannstatter Volksfest", "Stuttgart Herbstfest" and "Stuttgart Frühlingsfest" - these all being variants used here for what is basically the same event. BuzzWoof (talk) 12:36, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

I ran the test myself:

• about 1,680 English pages for "Stuttgart Beer Festival " -wikipedia.
• about 299 English pages for "Stuttgart Volksfest" -wikipedia.
• 4 English pages for "Cannstatter Volksfes" -wikipedia. (Two 2 YouTube and 2 from wikicommons!)
• 4 English pages for "Cannstatter Beer Festival"
• about 793 English pages for "Cannstatt Beer Festival" -wikipedia but this a false return because it says only 3 pages and if one clicks on page 2 then the number of pages drops to two and the legend at the top says
  • 17 English pages for "Cannstatt Beer Festival" -wikipedia.

So In my opinion under two WP:NC conditions this page should not be moved

1. "Generally, article naming should prefer what the greatest number of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second nature."
2. Use English section: "Name your pages in English and place the native transliteration on the first line of the article unless the native form is more commonly recognized by readers than the English form."

--Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 10:51, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Huh? Suddenly we have the result as NO MOVE? Could we possibly not have this debate slammed to a halt? WP:NC conditions... "Generally .. should" is good and well, but when this rule cannot accommodate for foreign language misunderstandings then something is wrong. The Volksfest has been visited by decades by foreigners (many serving in the army) who don't speak German and were told mistakenly that it was a beer festival. But that does not make the title "what the greatest number of English speakers would most easily recognize". Most people wouldn't recognise any title for it. Unlike the Oktoberfest. I've met people who think the Leaning Tower of Pisa is the Leaning Tower of Pizza. Would you therefore name the article that because "most people" would recoginise it anyway. On top of this..

1. Fact: the festival is not in Stuttgart but in a suburb.
2. Fact: it's not a beer festival.

If Stuttgart one day does introduce a real beer festival, what then? It strikes me the article should be renamed, and if anyone searches for Stuttgart Beer Festival then that can be sorted out with a redirect. But knowingly allowing the fest to be continued to be misnamed is not exactly best practice. BuzzWoof (talk) 18:57, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

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Merger proposal

I'm reopening the debate. There are two pages on Wikipedia with near-identical content, this page and Cannstatter Wasen. As the fest is not just a beer festival (pointed out in both articles), and Cannstatter Wasen is the actual name of the festival, I vote this page becoes a redirect to the other article. Hzoi (talk) 14:53, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I'd suggest merging the articles too. THe only problem would be under what name. Since entering the debate last time I've completely overhauled the article for Stuttgart so clearing this up should be child's play, if other editors allow us some leeway. My personal suggestion, having lived here for 12 years, would be to call it Cannstatter Wasen and have redirects on all the other names it's given! BuzzWoof (talk) 16:33, 28 September 2008 (UTC)