Talk:Strip club

2010 comments

There is no reference to gay strip clubs This article does not discuss gay strip clubs, which are a small yet popular portion of the strip club industry. The "topless" rules of straight strip clubs do not apply. The rules are usually more relaxed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.245.170.139 (talk) 06:35, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Then add it, I and I'm sure many know nothing of the scene, you seem to, so add the details Jasonfward (talk) 21:44, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

What wallanon is working on

Want to add content about a few key things over the next week or so: what are the pieces and parts of a club, club norms, and some background (primarily U.S.) about the business side of things. If I get to it, might fill in a bit more on strip clubs in pop culture and the hobbyist subculture. Any other ideas? - Wallanon (talk) 03:27, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

• Found the information I was looking for on market size and total revenues. If better sources found please include. Wallanon (talk) 20:15, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
• Pop culture could still use some tweaking, but it would probably need to end up being its own article combined with the content over in striptease. Don't really have time to work through that since striptease has more active editors who need to be coordinated with. Wallanon (talk) 20:15, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
• Think I have put in the material I was looking to do for now. May fill in a few points here and there, but I'm done with the bigger changes I wanted to incorporate. Wallanon (talk) 20:15, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

To Do List from GA Review #1

The text below is from the detailed review of the GA nomination. Anybody is welcome to claim some of the recommendations to work on by dropping their username by it. Wallanon (talk) 21:18, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Read this feedback a little more carefully, so there are a few comments of mine below now, too. - Wallanon (talk) 03:34, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Well-written

• Lead section
  • Too short. See WP:LEAD for more information.

 Done Expanded intro to multiple paragraphs and summarized article content. - Wallanon (talk) 18:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

• Background section

• How much money is spent in the US on strip club as listed in the second sentence?

 Done Checked the source. Information was given without dollar value. Knitpick. - Wallanon (talk) 18:59, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

• In the last sentence, "Some clubs..." is WP:WEASEL.

What would be great is for someone to explain how to express "a subset but not all" in a better way than "some". There is no accurate count in existence for some of these details without resorting to "original research" or a guess. - Wallanon (talk) 03:34, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Not sure Already addressed this comment, but wanted to expand on the point. If the market size cannot be reliably bounded because of industry volatility and the number of clubs only estimated, the feasibility of providing precise proportions is basically nil. - Wallanon (talk) 18:59, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

• Industry and markets subsection.

• Change $3.1 billion to US$3.1 billion and do the same for the $2.1 Billion in the second sentence of the opening paragraph. For the final sentence of the opening paragraph, for the larger market, is it within the US or in the adult entertainment industry?

 Done

• In the second paragraph's third sentence, spell out NY as New York.

 Done

• In the final paragraph's second sentence, when in 2010 did this take place? Also in the third paragraph, when was the statement of intent issued?

 Done Done. - Wallanon (talk) 19:30, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

• Business practices subsection.

• In the opening sentence of the third paragraph, change "...,bartender and manager for example,..." to ",...such as a bartender and manager,..."

 Done Done. - Wallanon (talk) 19:32, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

• Feature and services section

• Other floor zones subsection.

• In the lead sentence of the opening section, change "...where the cover charge (if any) is..." to "...where what, if any, cover charge is..."
• For the lead sentence of the fourth paragraph, "Lap dances can be (and are) performed..." is WP:WEASEL. Fix.

 Done Wording changed, but recommended text for cover charge read awkwardly and was not used. - Wallanon (talk) 19:46, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

• Performers and staff

• List examples of such Feature dancers and porn stars of people who are actually dancers in the opening paragraph.
• In the third paragraph's opening sentence, "legal" comes across as WP:PEACOCK and WP:WEASEL. Fix.

Not sure Added feature performer examples. "legal" is neither. Article clearly addresses regional differences in services strip clubs offer. - Wallanon (talk) 19:42, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

• Popular culture section

• Top clubs subsection.

• What is the criteria that AskMen.com set? List.

 Done Not listed in the article. Inferred from summaries of each club in the list. - Wallanon (talk) 19:54, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

• Strip clubs and the law section

• In the lead sentence of the second paragraph, notorious is WP:WEASEL.
• For the second sentence of the third paragraph, when in early 2010 did Detroit banned fully exposed breasts in strip clubs there?

 Done Reworded. It was February. - Wallanon (talk) 20:14, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Factually accurate and reliable

• For references, use WP:CITET for samples. The items listed have items retrieved in April 2010, but what day in April 2010 was this retreived? Specify. See WP:CITE for more details.

Same as below. When I feel like digging through the page history to figure out which day in April the references were added that will be addressed. - Wallanon (talk) 03:34, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

 Done Done for the majority of cited references. - Wallanon (talk) 20:35, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

• Three sections in this article are completely lacking references: Features and services, Performers and staff, and the first part of Popular culture. Read Wikipedia policies of WP:NOR. This looks like original research, something that Wikipedia does not allow.

 Done Not going to alter the text because the person was trying to be helpful, but everything in those sections is verifiable and references will be dug up when time permits. The threshold for something not being "original research" is that it is verifiable, not cited, content (see below). - Wallanon (talk) 03:34, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Factually accurate and verifiable:

(a) it provides references to all sources of information in the section(s) dedicated to the attribution of these sources according to the guide to layout; (b) it provides in-line citations from reliable sources for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines; and (c) it contains no original research.

• Italicize the book title in the External links section.

Not sure There is no external links section.

 Done Popular WP templates for all references have been used. - Wallanon (talk) 20:14, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Broad in coverage

• Covers strip clubs mainly in the US and parts of North America though four strip clubs outside of North America are listed in AskMen.com. Legal issues shown are only for the US. What effects are there outside of the US?

Not sure Global effects are not well documented. Addressed in sections but most information available is U.S.-referenced. - Wallanon (talk) 20:14, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

 Done Have addressed this now, too. - Wallanon (talk) 16:22, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Neutral

• It makes no listing of the effects of people who frequent or work at strip clubs. This includes physical, physiological, psychological, emotional, and finanacial results.

Not sure This article is about the club and club operations, not individual effects on its employees. Incorporated in passing (the reference to the employee discrimination case over a pregnancy) but not a key focus of the article. - Wallanon (talk) 20:14, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

 Done Have incorporated some more of social aspects but the article continues to focus on the business as an anchor for articles that provide a deeper level of detail. - Wallanon (talk) 03:39, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Stable

• 231 edits between 24 April and 9 May 2010 in an effort to get article to GA.

 Done Expansion of content via good faith edits. - Wallanon (talk) 20:14, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

 Done Changes since in response to the review feedback and done in good faith. - Wallanon (talk) 03:39, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Images

• All images listed are valid though the captions do not list when they were taken. For American locations, spell out the American state. In the image in the Strip club and the law section, the image does not seem relevant to the article. Remove. In the last image, where are the strip clubs located in the image in Baltimore? Specify.

 Done Most of the business on that street in Baltimore are strip clubs, and discussed in the article. Abbreviations should be acceptable to keep caption length short. - Wallanon (talk) 20:14, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Overall

• Fail. Too many problems with article. Major work required to get it to GA. Chris (talk) 13:31, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

 Done Every objective point in the review addressed. - Wallanon (talk) 20:14, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I wrote this on the reviewer's talk page, but should put "thanks" here, too. -Wallanon (talk) 05:16, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Reviewer: Chris (talk) 13:31, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Temporary home for "American industry & figures"

The text below works in an article about the subject, but not so much as a paragraph in an article that is trying to cover the industry from a global perspective. Not exactly spam, but not a good fit right now.- Wallanon (talk) 06:09, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Robert Casillas is a renown figure and is one of the adult club industry's leading educators, writer, and speaker for the adult club industry. Casillas has served as an advising expert to the Wall Street Journal regarding the adult club industry. Robert Casillas has worked with the industry's leading publication, the Exotic Dancer's Club Bulletin Magazine and has been a key expert for adult club VIP experience & profits and taught numerous education seminars and has been a renown guest speaker at the Exotic Dancer Club Owner’s Convention. in Las Vegas. ED Publications is the only national business magazine serving the multi-billion dollar adult nightclub industry. Casillas also contributes to Pumps Magazine a leading adult club industry website and to Xtreme Magazine the East Coast's largest printed and circulated publication serving the adult club industry.

Older comments (unsorted)

Touching of strippers is illegal in most (wish it was all) states.

Is that true? Touching of genitals or breasts for money is probably considered prostitution, but other than that, why should touching be illegal? AxelBoldt 20:22, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

It is in fact true. Most states explicitly have "no contact" rules, or even "six foot separation" rules in the laws regulating strip clubs, over and above what is considered prostitution. The reason why most patrons may not be aware of this is because in many jurisdictions, these rules are widely ignored, and prosecutions are rare.

I've been to strip clubs in the UK and there they allow the dancer to touch the client's genitals, while the client is allowed to initiate certain physical contact such as hand-holding and kissing, provided the dancer doesn't object of course. Can't speak for the US, though. 79.73.7.146 20:01, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh hang on, I just realised I've described a lap dancing club specifically. 79.73.16.125 13:25, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

How does one go about opening a strip club in New Jersey? Are they many restrictions and taxes that will prevent or liimit access to an investor opening one up?

List of Strip Club Scenes in Movies?

There doesn't appear to be a List of Movies with Strip Club Scenes article. Could someone start a stub or article? Add redirects to the one of the two above links that the article is not called. (Darn members-only article creation keeps too much pornographic content off Wikipedia.)

There are WAY too many, especially since having a scene in a strip club was an easy way to get an R rating, back when the choice was between R and PG, and PG would ruin the movies box office chances. This is why virtually every police detective in an 80's movie ends up visiting a strip club.

Why? Seriously, that would be taken to [[WP:AFD|Articles for deletion] so quickly. ViridaeTalk 23:23, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Citing References And Worldwide Perspective

I'll go to the University library in the next couple of weeks and try to find citations for some of the facts presented in this article. I think revenue figures may be difficult to find as I haven't found any on the web as of yet, but I'll check LexisNexis and other databases to see if I can find any estimated revenue data for clubs in America and abroad and find citations for other facts presented here.

Also, I'll work on the worldwide perspective for this article. Given that female toplessness and nudity is legal at the beach in some countries, particularly in Europe (Germany), and prostitution is legal in Germany and the Netherlands, I don't know how many strip clubs there are going to be in other countries. Strip clubs wouldn't be as numerous in America if such repressive attitudes toward public nudity didn't exist. It is possible that as a result of cultural differences, this article is going to lean heavily American.

I've got other articles on my to do list. But I'll be sure to work on this when I find the time in the ensuing days/weeks.

Monkeybreath 07:40, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

External links

I propose that we have NO links in this article. It just encourages spammers to add their own or change the existing one. We could put a comment in the article to the effect that it has been decided by the editors of the article not to add any external links to it... —Hanuman Das 01:30, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Reply by Monkeybreath:

First off, I don't think putting a ban on all external links because of one repeat troublemaker/spammer is the answer. Wikipedia guidelines allow certain types of external links, particularly if they are of informational benefit. No Wikipedia article can be all-encompassing--and Wikipedia is not intended to be that way. External links to informative sources are a benefit to all. (I, myself, have learned quite a great deal from external links on articles.)

Therefore, I propose that external links NOT be banned.

I am not affiliated with stripclubcetnral.com, one of the external links that was here. But I have stopped by it in the past and believe that it is of informational benefit above and beyond what can reasonably be included in this article. There are no ads on it (that I saw--just checked), and it is within Wikipedia guidelines for acceptable external links. Therefore, I feel it should stay.

If you've noticed, there tends to be a common theme among external links posted to this article (and other "adult oriented" articles): most are to ad-laden websites that promote prostitution/escorts and pornography. They are thinly-veiled vehicles for revenue generation and not legitimate informational resources about the strip club industry (or anything else).

I've removed myredpages.com external links from a number of different articles in the past few months. External links do not encourage spammers like this--profit does. This guy is NOT going away as long as a profit motive exists for him to drive traffic to his website. I don't know how much traffic he can expect from a Wikipedia article, but it probably isn't worth his time--unless his advertising rates are really high. I don't know what advertising for escorts pays, but it must be big. If an escort charges $300 per hour for her "services", she's probably willing to pay good money for advertising.

So do we waterdown the informational benefit that is Wikipedia by not allowing any external links no matter how informational or beneficial because of one troublemaker, or do we deal with him in an appropriate manner (see below)?

I've been contributing to Wikipedia for 13 - 14 months now under a few different usernames. I've read your history, Hanuman Das, and you've been a bigger contributor than I. So I don't want to get into a situation where you "pull rank" on me because of your greater contributions. However, when I first came by this article there wasn't much here. I've been the main monitor of it, I've contributed to it, and I plan to contribute to it further as time allows. I feel strongly that banning all external links on this or ANY other Wikipedia article is not the proper way to deal with troublemakers.

As I've said, I've removed links to myredpages.com from several articles in recent months. He has demonstrated a drive to spam. If he isn't spamming this article, he'll spam others. I've particularly grown tired of his modifying existing external links to redirect them to his website as he continues to do in this article; that is vandalism, pure and simple. So I'm going to file a spam complaint against him with his domain name registrar. His registrar, from what I've read, is particularly aggressive in dealing with spammers. They've been known to seize domain names and charge huge fees for releasing them. I didn't want this to come to this point, but he leaves no other option. Perhaps you'll consider joining me in filing a spam complaint against him. Maybe if he loses his domain name he'll reconsider his vandalizing, spamming ways.

https://www.godaddy.com/gdshop/spamreport/spamreport.asp End Monkybreath reply Monkeybreath 07:11, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

OK,then, Yoo know, I think there is a way to ban links to specific sites - you can't save a page with a link to a banned site. Not sure how to do it, but perhaps you could look into getting myredpages.com added to the spam list... —Hanuman Das 13:43, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Reply to Hanuman Das by Monkeybreath: I didn't think spam would stop, and it hasn't. I go away for a few weeks and see it keeps coming back time and time again. If you've noticed, most of the external links are to sites that advertise escorts, swinger ads like Adult Friend Finder, etc. Unfortunately, this isn't the only article that is being bombarded with spam. Sometimes I follow a user around from article to article removing external links. *sigh* It takes the fun out of this. I'd rather add content to an article than remove spam! I'll make a post on the admin pages to see if there is anything that can be done about the spam. By the way, that myredpages.com guy has been spamming Google Groups, too. Monkeybreath 02:39, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

One question for User:Monkeybreath. Why when I got in it with you several months ago about this very subject (commercial links), my IP was immediately banned from stripclubcentral.com that day? And why is stripclubcentral.com whois info hidden? This is very suspicious, and it is too similar to what went on at Dmoz. People promoting there own sites. Also why are you using several different logons? I like the idea of removing all links. That way there is no problems. Or, only link sites with whois data not hidden.

Well for all you wanna be strip club this and strip club that, there is only one #1 site and all you have to do is a google search for strip clubs and look whos at the top of almost any search you can think of with strip club in it.

Stripclub alternate entry

There's a software project called stripclub (http://sf.net/projects/stripclub/) for viewing and caching online comic strips. It has no wikipedia entry and I'm not wikipedia-savvy enough to know how to open such a page in a way that conforms to whatever standards you have here. I also don't know much about it except that I use it and like it. If you build a stub for it, I believe they will come :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.27.111.132 (talk) 13:43, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Merge from Champagne room

No objection to the merge, but please make sure that you do not delete the see also when you do something like this. Cheers MadMaxDog 06:10, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Merge. I agree with MadMaxDog. I've never heard of a champagne room that wasn't part of a strip club. But keep the links. Becksguy 21:34, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

In my experience a champagne room is simply a VIP room or a private room. I have only seen these in strip clubs. So I agree that a merge is reasonable.

I also agree. As far as I know Champagne Rooms only exist inside strip clubs. So, merge away. --Seskia (talk) 16:29, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

• As creator of the "Champagne room" article, I agree with the merge. It has not expanded much, and is unlikely to expand in any way that would not merely duplicate material belonging in this article. bd2412 T 21:41, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Wow, this article is almost as long as the one on Baseball. And when we look at the See Also section, we also see many very similar articles that someone else might want to MERGE here as well. I am NOT a fan of very long articles. The advantage of Hyper-Linking is that we can have a more MODULAR approach to presenting information. But when we have these super long articles, we ignore the clarity of having a modular structure and make the user's navigation more difficult. For example, surf to the 'Baseball' article and see how the Main Article command is used to link an Introductory Subsection ("Statistics") to a much larger Satellite Article ( example: Go to 'Baseball' article, and then go to the 'Statistics' Subsection, and notice it has a Main Article command ( "Main article: Baseball statistics" ) which links us to a Satellite Article of larger elaboration, and helps keep the central article from getting too long. In short, I think that we should be making more use of the Main Article command in this article to reduce its size, and allow the reader to better NAVIGATE to the sub-topics of their particular interest.James Carroll (talk) 15:39, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Too little information on male stripping

I know that, as the Stripper article states, male stripping isn't as popular, but the Male stripper article, and ones related to it definitely need more on it. There is more to state about it in regards to heterosexual women. I altered the Entertainment formats section just a bit to tackle the topic of male stripping.[1][2] I may have overlooked some things, but I didn't see anything about it in this article before that. There could at least be an image of a male stripper included somewhere in here. I'm not sure if this topic was brought up before (haven't checked the talk page archives yet, and don't see any talk page archives to select from), but I needed to state something on it anyway. Flyer22 (talk) 16:21, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Hot Lap Dance Club- seeking consensus

This edit was confusing, but as I followed up on an unblock request by the user who made it, I think I am beginning to understand. If I understand him correctly, he would prefer that his name, and the name of his club, not be featured so prominently in this article. I can imagine that would be embarrassing to him, and while we don't remove significant material just to spare people from embarrassment, we also don't embarrass people intentionally when the material is not important. I'm not convinced that a rather boring picture of the furniture in this specific club, and the story of its closure, is essential to the understanding of what a 'strip club' is, or significant to the history of strip clubs. Should we do this guy a favor and remove his name and the pictures of his now-closed club from the article? -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 16:16, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

I don't see how the feelings of anyone enter into this at all. However, the paragraph seems needless and doesn't I feel even belong in the section it was in. However, if someone wrote an article or section covering controversies around strip clubs I would have no problem at all with its inclusion. Jasonfward (talk) 12:17, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

"...or the customer's genital area remains covered"

The above statement is in the description of the Bikini type of club under Entertainment formats > Types. I don't know how to explain my objection to it, but I think it shouldn't be there. --anon. 71.183.134.249 (talk) 04:57, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

There was an edit made a while back to try and include male dancers in the description of a bikini club. At some point that turned into a customer reference. Bikini clubs are not gender neutral, so edited the sentence closer to read with its common understanding. Wallanon (talk) 03:47, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Need Consensus Help on Kindred Article, Lap Dance

I’ve been trying to add new information and clean up previous writing on a very related article, Lap Dance. However there are only a few active editors, and some of those appear to be agenda-driven and want stifle the article. On January 6, 1014, one individual with support of another watchful editor(Beyond My Ken), made a massive deletion with a single Edit Command to that article which destroyed 3 Sections and cut the article's total byte count in half. Since there are so few participants on the Talk Page of Lap Dance (Lap Dancing), we could really use some help from some of the contributors of this article to achieve a reasonable consensus which opposes that massive deletion. Please feel free to comment on the ongoing discussion of the massive deletion on the Lap Dance Talk page, or discuss on my Talk page any ideas that you have.James Carroll (talk) 17:59, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Exotic?

Might be the exotic word adopt a regional point of view and might need to be internationalized? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.67.211.86 (talk) 11:56, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Merger of Sexual entertainment venues

The consensus regarding the article "Sexual entertainment venues' was that it should be merged into this one. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sexual entertainment venues.

 Done

Polly Tunnel (talk) 12:24, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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Is nozokibeya hyphenated?

In the article, it isn't, and shortly afterwards it is. Gprobins (talk) 15:21, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Why does "Bikini Bar" redirect here?

I have been lead to believe that the dancers in bikini bars don't strip. Therefore, bikini bars aren't strip clubs. --Rob Kelk 19:56, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

Omitted article title?

and can also adopt a [ ]] or cabaret-style. The abandoned square brackets strongly suggest something else, the title of a Wiki article, has been omitted; but what? Nuttyskin (talk) 18:25, 1 October 2023 (UTC)