Talk:Straight ally

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Restructure

The introduction seems unnecessarily verbose, and i am wondering if the simplest solution to the messy list of straight allies section would be to create a new page for prominent Straight allies and link it in. If there is not enough to warrant a new page perhaps we can create a page for prominent/celebrity gay rights activists? Or more likely just add their names to the list of LGBT rights activists? --Kooperfan (talk) 09:56, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Lady Gaga

I'm removing Lady Gaga as an example of a famous 'straight ally' as she is bisexual. [1] --Kooperfan (talk) 01:06, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

What about Kylie Minogue? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.74.180.147 (talk) 17:32, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Globalize tag

Can we make this article a bit less US-biased? Out of 13 "prominent examples" of straight allies, all but one (Theron) are American. This is an international encyclopedia, not a US one. (Why haven't I edited myself? Because I don't know enough to do so... but someone must.) 81.158.1.214 04:15, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I added Brits Richard Dawkins and Jonathan Miller, and Aussie Kerry Nettle. It's still American-heavy though, so I'm leaving the tag in place. — coelacan talk — 20:53, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi there. I just would like to comment that the reason the list is so US-centric may be due to the fact that the issue is rarely as polarizing elsewhere. In Britain, whilst there are of course homophobes in positions of power and influence there are a great number of politicians who could be defined as "straight allies" and yet this is not a particularly remarkable thing about them. Certainly in Sweden one could argue that the vast majority of politicians and public figures (Carola excepted of course :) ) are archetypal straight allies, however, the situation in this country (and many others) is such that this isn't especially noteworthy and thus it is difficult to assign any one individual as being this without including them all. Maybe this article could be improved by defining the concept of "straight allies" as being precipitated by societies with lesser rather than greater tolerance of homosexuality due to the fact that such individuals stand out more. Alternatively, just tell me to mind my own business. Thanks for listening.Intesvensk 22:03, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I would be cautious about saying that the issue is "rarely" as polarizing outside the United States. As we are seeing a trend of more and more countries becoming theocratic, we are starting to see more situations where LGBT persons' lives are being threatened, both by governments and fellow citizens. We must find allies where we can, inside or outside our own countries.24.50.151.156 (talk) 00:26, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Mary Bono

I'm removing Mary Bono, because:

• In 1999, she voted in favor of the Largent amendment,[2] to ban adoption by same-sex couples in Washington, DC.[3]

That's not the action of an ally. There's probably another Republican who can honestly go on this list, but I do not know of one. Any suggestions? — coelacan talk — 20:38, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Examples

Should the people who are examples of straight allies be people who have defined themselves as straight allies (or something similar)? Rather than a list of people who's statements and actions we judge to be those of a straight ally? abexy 18:00, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

There hasn't been much talk about this, but let me also add: people who other sources (other than themselves) have called straight allies (or a synonym). Places like the Gay and Lesbian Task Force or the Human Rights Campaign, or even news articles. I just think a lot of the examples are hinging off a sort of "objective" definition. abexy 20:22, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Isn't President Obama a strong ally?

With the exception of same-sex marriage, Barack Obama supports virtually all aspects of gay equality. If so, why not include him into the list?Пипумбрик (talk) 04:14, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't see how anyone who is against same-sex marriage could possibly be called an ally...Spock of Vulcan (talk) 03:33, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

That isn't true anymore, so I edited to reflect. Countered (talk) 00:59, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Totally agree. Still-24-45-42-125 (talk) 01:14, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Reformat list

The list of straight allies is very messy in terms of layout. If nobody objects in the next few days, I am going to reformat it to make it neater. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Iain3217 (talk • contribs) 19:10, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Delete List

The list is the main focus of the article right now. It is polarizing to international readers, difficult to define valid criteria for inclusion and frankly ends up being a bit of a popularity contest. Do we add Brad and Angie because of their stance on marriage? Do we add any and all parents? (I just read about Ally Sheedy's daughter) Do we add Jodie Foster? ('nuf said). Finally, does it really add to someone's understanding of the subject; what is an Ally; specifically a GLBT Ally.

I would love to get some help fleshing out this article to the point where we could just REMOVE the list and eliminate the issues... Anybody? If I get back here in the next while, I will try to put in the "Straight, but not narrow" guidelines -- Mjquinn_id (talk) 21:09, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

You Can Play?

I think the You Can Play campaign would be great for this article. Just not sure where. 108.172.37.34 (talk) 06:35, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Here is a video that can be used for a citation (which also mentions the gay-straight alliance at the end): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqIeFbTrfjc 108.172.37.34 (talk) 07:13, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Other types of allies

I think this page could be more informative if opened up to become a general "ally" article, since the term is also applied to male feminists and abled allies of disabled people. Muffinator (talk) 04:24, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

This article is about "straight ally," as covered by WP:Reliable sources on the topic. We don't yet have an Ally article, and this is likely because Wikipedia is concerned with making sure that we have articles that go beyond a dictionary definition, and so much of an Ally article would overlap with the Friendship article, considering that ally is commonly a synonym for friend. Flyer22 (talk) 04:49, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

If you mean simply expanding the Straight ally article to talk about more than LGBT aspects, that's fine of course...as long as WP:Reliable sources are provided connecting the term straight ally or heterosexual ally to those non-LGBT matters and there is not a WP:Undue weight problem. Flyer22 (talk) 04:57, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

NPOV

The introduction does not meet Wikipedia guidelines for NPOV. No sources either. Needs rewriting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.110.112.220 (talk) 08:14, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

You are partly correct. The problem here is not the POV of the article, it is that its claims are mostly not supported by sources. The article only contains 5 sources, most of which do not seem independent of the subject. Usually when you see unsupported claims in Wikipedia, it means that they constitute original research, reflect some editor's biased perspective or are straight hoaxes. Dimadick (talk) 08:31, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

Straight Ally Flag

As found on multiple website, a prevalent straight ally flag seems to be a stylised letter A (or is it a couple of triangles) filled with the rainbow colours, on a black and white stripped background. The flag is already on wikimedia at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Straight_Ally_flag.svg. I am not aware of the general consensus on the use of this flag, nor could I find an origin for this flag.

Should the flag be added to this page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Galahad78 (talk • contribs) 17:29, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

I too think the page should have the straight ally flag! I like the flag and think it can add to the content of the page. Mnguytono (talk) 17:48, 1 April 2019 (UTC)mnguytono

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Expansion on Criticism Paragraph?

I feel like it would be particularly valuable to discuss a bit more the critical viewpoint of Straight Allies, with either an explanation that's a bit more fleshed out, some examples of people or organizations that have "advocated" for the LGBT community but have little to no tangible contributions to show for it, or both. This would help contextualize criticism that self-proclaimed Straight Allies have faced in history.LDPStardust (talk) 19:08, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

Added Header

I added the header "organizations and activism" I wanted it to flow better and make it look less like one massive clump. Mnguytono (talk) 17:46, 1 April 2019 (UTC)mnguytono

Refining the Lead

While the Lead does have an introductory sentence that defines what a "straight ally" is, it does not speak to the rest of the article. The Lead seemed to be too specific in some areas and too vague in others - with the LGBTQ+ community being so expansive, I feel that the terms used in the Lead should be more all-encompassing. Even though the article only has one major section after the Lead, that section is not mentioned at all in the introduction, making the Lead seem somewhat off topic. The Lead would insinuate that the article would mainly be covering how straight allies or formed or are defined, but rather it explores the role of organizations and well-known individuals instead. In my opinion, I think the Lead is almost too concise, and leaves out important information that could be useful to both the introduction and overall understanding of what an ally is. Ahmyers10 (talk) 05:29, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Rather than the issues you mentioned, I feel more strongly about the arrangement of the lead section. Definition and background of "ally" is okay but it doesn't seem right to begin the actual topic almost 50 words into the article. Kidonng (talk) 14:51, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Historical Background Is Irrelevant?

I don’t understand how the historical background section and the lengthy description of homophiles relates to straight allyship at all. It doesn’t seem to have a main point so I’m not sure where to begin with editing. --Sydpresscott (talk) 21:49, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

I've always found the choice of this word odd.

Is ally really the right word for it? Does the word ally not imply a mutually beneficial arrangement? A Straight Ally isn't really gaining anything for themselves though. 88.241.81.192 (talk) 12:02, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

The mutual benefit is free speech. A world in which everyone is safer to talk without threat of persecution under the guise "righteoussness" is a world in which they are safer to talk freely too. Free speech benefits everyone, even if that freedom isn't used it's still a freedom that matters to have. 31.20.106.40 (talk) 06:17, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

If free speech matters, then how come many LGBTQ activists "believe in free speech but..." usually culminating in calling legitimate critique "hate" and claiming that "hate speech is not free speech"?

The word "ally" is also has military origins, which helps charactarize the whole thing as a war. 86.4.200.191 (talk) 14:49, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

There is lots to gain though, apart from being extremely moral and getting the boundless social validation from the rules based order of democracy that we live in, there is also the fact that double fisting is one of the greatest possible pleasures on this rock floating in the middle of this chaotic and uncaring universe. Maybe open your mind (or behind) a little and try it sometimes. 2600:8800:4880:D480:8961:4F1:F9E7:2EB5 (talk) 03:12, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

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