Talk:Stereotype/Archive 2

Shortening/Reorganization

I think it would be best to cut down on ethnic stereotypes by cutting down on the info of ethnical stereotypes that have separate articles already, to quite possibly 1-2 sentences. Ethnicals are really hogging up all the space in this article, and if need be, might as well just take out all the individual sections on specific ethnicities, and just have one main section for ethnic stereotypes, with a link to the ethnic stereotype article.

We could also place etymology of stereotypes on top, as it usually is in other developed articles. Zanibas (talk) 06:46, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Seems like the very beginning does not really give an accurate explanation. It does not say anything about that its a generalization about assumpted members of a group. The article does not really point out clearly that also groups are a problematic concept as for example in Rogers Brubakers Ethnicity without groups (2004). I would like to make those chances. Does anybody else think its necessary? DiAyd (talk) DiAyd (talk) 08:33, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Globalisation template

Added globalisation template. Many of the references and perceptions are related to a US centric view. Examples include the primary stereotype of 'blacks' being focused on African-americans, and the stereotypes of white Americans including very little of outsiders perceptions. Stereotypes of Americans from poorer, middle eastern and asian countries are probably worth including Clovis Sangrail (talk) 02:08, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

The white stereotype section should be removed

Not a single stereotype it mentions is racial. The stereotypes it mentions are either national or based on something like hair color. Unlike the stereotypes of blacks or asians those stereotypes don't applie to the entire white race. Those should be consider national stereotypes.YVNP (talk) 04:26, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Removed the white stereotypes section

Of course there are stereotypes of nations that are mostly white but that isn't a stereotype of white people. Are "Jamaican" stereotypes black stereotypes? Are Ethiopian stereotypes black stereotypes? How about Nigerian stereotypes? If we did this for every race it would be overloaded. Even worse listing every stereotype of every white ethnicity/nationality/hair type/subculture shows there aren't any white stereotypes. How can you be stereotyped by race if people acknowledge you for non-racial characteristics? I also notice little if any reliable sources. YVNP (talk) 01:50, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

The section has been reinserted. Maybe we could rename the section to stereotypes by nations or national stereotypes, and put white stereotypes in a separate section. Cenarium ^Talk 15:29, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Long list of racial and ethnic stereotypes

The section, "Racial and ethnic stereotyping" is huge and will only grow larger as more examples are added. Rather than listing all the stereotypes that can be found in human cultures, I think this would be a stronger article if it focused on general principles of stereotypes, and the way they form and change over time. I propose that we move the content of this section to a new article called Racial and ethnic stereotypes or perhaps List of racial and ethnic stereotypes. Then we can begin to work on the article Stereotypes by clarifying issues, inserting relevant research from sociology and psychology, etc. Any opinions? --Jcbutler (talk) 17:01, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Sex/gender stereotype section

This section needs serious expansion... way to short and shallow to cover such a contentious and important issue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ajcslr22 (talk • contribs) 05:20, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

"English Rose" section

Katie Price glamorous? Seriously? 62.24.202.164 (talk) 18:10, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Positive english stereotyping

Are there any positive cases of British stereotyping or are we just known as colonialist, business obsessed bastards (to put it politely)? There has to be some good case of stereotyping! For a more knowledgeable and relaxed Wikipedia- Nemesis646 (talk) 17:42, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

• Here's one: all British accents are sexy. 31dusk (talk) 03:35, 22 February 2009 (UTC)31dusk

Review the perspective

This article is seriously long, is seriously overlinked and links out of the context of the article (WP:CONTEXT). If trying for a encyclopaedic perspective there would seem the need to pull back and review what is looking to be done if you are looking for an effective and an article that is going to be read. From my quick scan it is not a matter of more content on this page, it is more about relevance and brevity. -- billinghurst (talk) 15:29, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

is this NPOV?

"Everyone should be considered an individual who is not burdened with the problems of others involved in a stereotype"

If I understood it correctly, I do agree with that statement, but it doesn't sound very neutral to me. Rncyclopedias shouldn't tell people how to behave, right? --TiagoTiago (talk) 00:02, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Stereotype of Soviet People

Stereotypes of soviet people are very popular in a movies about War World 2 or Cold War. Add some details about this? Also please add some details about Kazakh people because a lot of people seen movie Borat?

TOVARISH Za matushu Rassiu —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.142.54.66 (talk) 05:26, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Stereotypes about russian people LogicMagic (talk) 11:38, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Can anything be done to rescue this article?

This article is getting larger by the day, yet remains largely uncited and full of POVs and facts verging on personal anecdotes. It starts off well and has some good material at the start, but most of the later sections reads badly, with lots of 'Also' sentences. I'm going to have a run through it shortly and do a radical cropping on all the dubious and trivial stuff that is uncited. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 11:05, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more. I think we should delete all the "examples of stereotypes" and require references for everything else. Otherwise the article is completely unmanageable and a constant invitation for people to add their versions of every stereotype known to humanity. As it is, the article is full of garbage. --Jcbutler (talk) 15:04, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Well I've begun with a pass through the lower sections cropping out a lot of stuff to abbreviate things. I don't think anything of value has been removed. What's left still needs a lot of work, but it's a start. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 23:06, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that the examples need to be culled if they're not going to be edited. Stereotypes differ according to who's telling them (obviously), e.g. here and here. Perhaps if there are sources, a few examples could be collated and put in as "US stereotypes" or something similar; perhaps it could be spun off into a US humour article. The point being atm the article is just a bucket for everyone to empty their own views into. 118.90.61.58 (talk) 21:05, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

The examples section probably needs to be deleted. It is crammed with original resarch and has just become a general spot for people to add their own personal opinions on what is or isn't a stereotype. If it was removed this article would be a lot shorter, but it would make it a great deal more encycopedic. Lord Cornwallis (talk) 00:01, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I've done a further removal of the uncited sections. There are still a few sub-standard sections in there, but at least they have cites. I also removed what appeared to be an attempt to racially group the stereotypes, which seemed to me to be stereotyping in itself. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 20:53, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for that. It is a great improvment. Lord Cornwallis (talk) 03:55, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, great work! II | (t - c) 04:00, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Where is Canada?

Where is the Canadian Stereotype section on the page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.27.153.243 (talk) 02:55, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

As usual, it's hidden in the shadow of the USA —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.171.52.218 (talk) 22:09, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

wow get over yourself —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.160.102.251 (talk) 22:30, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

English Steriotypes

Can I ask where are the English Stereotypes? Every single American movie/TV show you see that has an English person in it speaks like the Queen or with a Cockney accent. You would have thought with the import of shows like Red Dwarf and Monty Python would teach that there is a huge variety of accents in the UK, we are not limited to just two.194.81.189.20 (talk) 15:00, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

no you don't only see those kinds of accents in the media and we don't think you all speak that way. that's just yet another example of a stereotype —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.160.102.251 (talk) 22:26, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

What about the stereotype that we have bad oral hygeine? I don't see that one being challenged. Also, you can't say that all American's don't think we're posh etc. in Steven Fry's series of touring America, so many people thought he was Australian or from some way off magical land because they thought all British people speak like a Londoner or the Queen. 78.150.9.227 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:36, 7 June 2010 (UTC).

East Asian Stereotyping as Effeminate

Every country I have lived in Europe or have been to in Europe and North Africa negatively stereotype East Asian men as being all effeminate and conformist like robots. Egypt, Libya, Greece, Denmark, France, Italy, Portugal, Ireland, Scotland, England, Germany, Malta and Belgium, it is a commonly held stereotype in all these countries I have been to that the men of China, Japan, Thailand or anywhere in East Asia are very feminine and quite sexless, very conformist to the point of being easily controlled like robots. This stereotype may not exist in America but it is widely held in Europe and North Africa.

I'm English and I've never heard of this. That's not to say that I deny the stereotypical belief exists... I've seen those JRock bands where they guys dress very femenine or pretend to be women, that's possibly where it comes from. Also, I don't know about the robot/comformist thing; Asian cultures tend to be collectivist, but that doesn't mean that they all dress, look or act the same... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.150.33.25 (talk) 16:12, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Irish Stereotypes

The first paragraph of the "Irish stereotypes" section about irish/english stereotyping each other as 'others'. This feels very inacturrate (how ironic). Can somebody consider revising? fabnt (talk) 21:56, 4 May 2009 (UTC) "Benign in comparison to some of the more vulgar generalizations " seems inappropriate, it's not for someone else to call stereotyping benign. Can we rewrite this?

I agree that the sentence "Benign in comparison to some of the more vulgar generalizations against other ethnicities but nonetheless incorrect are those accusing the Irish as quick-tempered brawlers and alcoholics." is inaccurate. If there is some hypothetical 'most extreme', that would make all other vulgar generalizations 'benign in comparison', wouldn't it? Who's to say that these generalizations are 'more benign'? Maybe if someone had a source arguing that these were in fact 'more benign' in some sense, that bit could be put back in. I've changed it to "Some of the more vulgar generalizations against Irish people are characterizations of them as quick-tempered brawlers and alcoholics." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.2.26.98 (talk) 22:12, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

English prejudice in 1796 was fundamental?

What does that even mean? Fundamental to what? That picture doesn't even show stereotypes from what I can tell, it's just a bunch of people defacating. And the English figure is the most grotesque of all, so I don't see what the point of that image and caption is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.219.203.166 (talk) 15:31, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

It's stupid and ought to be removed in my opinion. The Squicks (talk) 02:44, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Atheist Stereotypes

What about atheists being stereotyped as obsessed with making ownage videos on Youtube, and harboring Marxist viewpoints? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.21.245.98 (talk) 08:38, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Western European stereotypes

I've noticed the long section on stereotypes of white North Americans (obese, gun obsessed, etc) popular amongst white Western Europeans, I just wondered if a section of the stereotype in the opposite direction across the Atlantic might be in order? Such as this from the Bullshit episode Mount Rushmore:

“There's also the other worry that you have no patriotism, sort of your soulless, so you don't really believe in anything or you don't think there's anything unique about your culture that's the kind of feeling that makes you want to move to Europe."

And so on. I must say these Eurotrash stereotypes seem a lot more bigoted than the “fat American” stereotypes. Is there really no place for them in the article? And maybe that might have a link to the proposed anti-atheist stereotypes popular in the US too like this and this and this all taken from the SAME website. There's another page on that website I can't find with a Naziesque cartoon of atheism as “the opiate of the morally corrupt”.

So maybe a section on atheistic Eurotrash stereotypes too? --Simpsons contributor (talk) 18:12, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Anti-atheist bigots --Simpsons contributor (talk) 18:16, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Stereotype

YOUR STEREOTYPE INFORMATION IS WRONG.COMPLETELY. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.14.4.96 (talk) 17:06, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

....ok.... hey where's the british stereotype? I love reading about "how we are" lol. Lu-igi board (talk) 20:07, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

where is the drunken irishmen sterotype? Lu-igi board (talk) 18:22, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Information on stereotypes in the article need to be cited. Preferably from a good reliable source that discusses the stereotype, rather than just casually uses it. This article has had problems in the past with people just filling it with negative opinions of other nationalities, genders, minorities, etc, with absolutely no evidence that they are notable or verifiable. The article needs to be more than just a random collection of examples of bigotry. It needs to actually discuss the nature of stereotypes, not just be a list of them. So adding "drunken Irishmen" as yet another example, particularly when it is uncited, adds nothing of value to the article. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 20:26, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Not All Stereotypes are bad

Hey all, I think that the page's presentation of stereotypes is far too negative and lacking some degree of neutrality. Stereotypes are a very useful organization tool. Example: Children like to play. That is not a negative use, but a positive use that provides efficiency when communicating.
Daniel McMullen (talk) 21:20, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Is that really a stereotype? It seems more like a fact to me. C Teng ^[talk] 13:12, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

So, stereotypes must be counterfactual? This article is horrible! It doesn't accurately define the term. It doesn't differentiate between the "model behaviour/outcome" stereotype (noun) and the verb to stereotype. It confuses prejudice with stereotype. It (mostly) implies stereotypes are negative, connotes negative attributes and predicts negative outcomes. This is nonsense. The sentence "Asians do better on the SAT than all other racial groups" expresses a stereotype (compare that and the sentences "All Asians do better." or "Most Asians do better." or "The average Asian does better than the overall average."). The problems with this article are overwhelming. First, the definition of the term is unsatisfactory. (I'm not sure that there can be a good one until the neurocognitive community or the psychological community get involved). A stereotype (noun) is a learned meme. Learning can be direct: (asians (or caucasians,lol!) have eyes that slant) or culturally transmitted ( Elbonians are all lazy thiefs). A stereotype predicts behaviour or outcome or property of a member of a category when exposed to a given stimulus or in a given context. (An Elbonian will rob your house if you leave the door unlocked, an Elbonian does not graduate grade school, an Aryan will sacrifice her life for her family, etc.). Some of the problems with the logic in this article are semantic: does "Elbonians will x" imply "ALL Elbonians will x" or "Some Elbonians will x" or "you should expect that an Elbonian will x"? Without an adequate definition, this article is a waste of time. We process models of reality, not reality. Therefore intelligence is the ability to process models of reality to allow best choices be made. Stereotypes are rules about possible behaviour (results) which will influence the decision making and thence the choice (or expectation). It has to be determined if the use of stereotypes is, in general, a negative or a positive in terms of a preferred outcome. The issue with applying a (factually correct) stereotype to a group is that you risk offending members of the group who do not fit the stereotype. In addition, you risk offending members who do fit the stereotype but resent being labeled, since a label implies a lack of free will. (Not to get too philosophical)71.31.152.112 (talk) 19:27, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I definitely agree that all stereotypes are not bad. From my psychology class I learned that people organize their social worlds into mental representations called schemas. Schemas help people organize information and helps them know how to react in a certain situation. Schemas that relate to a certain group of people are called stereotypes. Stereotypes are part of human nature and they are not all bad - it just helps us organize information. --Kerri grant (talk) 01:10, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

What?

"...white females having larger breasts than other women from other ethnic groups..."

That can't be right, unless they're specifically talking about fake breasts. Isn't it usually black or Hispanic women who are portrayed this way? Stonemason89 (talk) 04:07, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

UPDATE: I added a tag to that statement about white women, as it is not cited and I doubt its veracity very much. Stonemason89 (talk) 02:55, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the stereotype about fake breasts (and cosmetic surgery in general) targets hispanic women, not white women. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.255.47.17 (talk) 06:38, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Australia

Can someone put the stereotypes about Australia in their like the fact that everyone apparently thinks we ride kangaroos to school and speak in an aussie accent (its like saying all americans speak like they do in the south) and are like the croc hunter and that were racist. I would but i have to go to work and i will probably forget later —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gargabook (talk • contribs) 21:41, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Lead in relation to a range of dictionary definitions or limit thereon

For earlier related discussion, see Talk:Stereotype#Can anything be done to rescue this article?.

Consultation of any standard dictionary reveals a divergence of the Lead from the different uses of the term. There ought to be a cited source there on the one or more different aspects that the article will and will not discuss, for example the sociological use of the term. Used as a "thick concept" (per philosophy) invested with not only description but value judgment content, it has the difficulty of inviting a non-Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. But stated as a term in sociology or psychology, it may better avoid that outcome and lend itself to defining the article in those terms. --Thomasmeeks (talk) 11:13, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

pedophilia

while i'm not good at editing wikipedia, i believe that the pedophilia section needs to be reviewed. i'm not sure if b4uact.org is reliable enough, and the words 'false' and 'unacceptable' are inappropriate. (edited)

this is the section i'm referring to: Pedophiles and pedophilia, although not under the category of Sexual Orientation such as homosexuality or bisexuality are also victims of stereotypes. In mass media a pedophile is usually depicted a serial child molester or a person with several mental problems, while many organizations remark that most pedophiles, although attracted to young or teenage children, do not molest them and that many of the stereotypes against pedophiles are false or are unacceptable as a generalization. 129.32.184.225 (talk) 01:53, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

I just cleaned it up a bit,[1][2][3][4] but it should be removed...as far as I'm concerned. Harmful to Minors, the controversial source pedophiles often cite, when the author is more so talking about adolescents/teenagers (and not prepubescent children) is not a good source to use. Flyer22 (talk) 07:25, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

I've deleted this material (no reflection on Flyer22's editing) and all of the other descriptions.   Will Beback  talk  07:59, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Certainly no complaint from me, Will Beback. I see you deleted more than that. Thanks for taking the initiative. Flyer22 (talk) 08:24, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Article is a breeding ground for bigotted edits

I don't know what to propose about this, but a lot of this article focuses on listing stereotypes without discussing their origin, popularization, "counter-arguments"(I'm sure there's a more appropriate word for this subject). This kind of content not only is insulting to large classes of people, but deprives the reader of context to really understand the material. It's pretty clear that this article needs more people watching it, so I can at least do that. i kan reed (talk) 14:27, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

I've deleted the descriptions of individual stereotypes. They were mostly unsourced and entirely unhelpful. Readers can follow the relevant links to find out more about those issues.   Will Beback  talk  07:58, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Good move. The LGBT stereotypes article certainly covers the male homosexuality, lesbianism, and bisexuality topics better than this one did. The only information I saw worth keeping was the material in the Sexual stereotypes and Impact of sexual stereotypes sections. The latter could have been merged with the Effects, accuracy, terminology section. Flyer22 (talk) 08:24, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Feel free to restore any sourced material.   Will Beback  talk  08:32, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Black People

I'm surprised there is not a section of sterotypes about black people. no one wanted to touch that one huh? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.129.161.251 (talk) 22:27, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Lippmann

There seems to be some garbled text in the header section. A quotation from Lippman begins but seems to switch into something on printing; and the footnotes do not seem to match any of it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.88.218.166 (talk) 14:52, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Dynamics?

So this may be my psychology background at work, but I have absolutely no clue what "dynamics" actually means. In addition, there's only a couple citations in that whole section. I think it would be an improvement to have a section instead titled something like "theoretical perspectives" and then a couple of subheaders that discuss stereotype formation, stereotype maintenance, etc. And then it would segue into the existing section about effects of stereotypes. Any thoughts? I'm really new to editing Wikipedia so I'd appreciate any feedback before I radically change anything! Carps11 (talk) 19:23, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Evolving concepts of stereotypes

I plan to incorporate the information in the section Evolving concepts of stereotypes into the section Functions. According to the source used in the section, stereotypes help make sense of the world, save time and energy, and reflect norms of social groups. These are "functions" rather than concepts.

Are there any objections to moving the content to Functions? --Sonicyouth86 (talk) 22:06, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Support - Nope, no objections. Sounds like a good edit. --Andrewaskew (talk) 00:33, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Support – This seems like a reasonable move. The article is pretty bloated with headings and combining some sections may help make the article a bit less daunting. I would concur that the evolution of stereotyping research can probably be adequately conveyed as part of related topics. Cheers Andrew (talk) 05:53, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Social consequences

The section Social consequences (a subsection of Effects) says that stereotyping helps individuals arrive at more accurate conclusions. I read the book chapter by Jussim et al. but I didn't find support for the statement as written. Jussim et al. state that "some aspects of some stereotypes may have some degree of accuracy" (p. 199) but that is not an effect and the authors do not suggest that stereotyping (which is a category-based process of impression formation) leads to more accurate conclusions if compared to more individuating processes of impression formation.

Jussim et al. mention some alleged effects of stereotypes in the opening paragraph – "Sixty years of empirical research has taught us much about stereotypes. Stereotypes can arise from, and sustain, intergroup hostility. They are sometimes linked to prejudices based on race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, nationality, and just about any other social category. They can serve to maintain and justify hegemonic and exploitative hierarchies of power and status. They can corrupt interpersonal relations..." – but that's pretty much it.

Could the editor who added the information comment here please? I'd like to remove the sentence and perhaps work with the remaining information (distress, lack of emotional identification etc.) to add a section on the affective consequences of stereotyping. --Sonicyouth86 (talk) 12:19, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

National Stereotypes

I saw many asking for national stereotypes. I think it does not really fit into the article, but many might find it interesting. Here you can check and even add some: http://stereotypes.sim-design.de/ DiAyd (talk) 08:17, 19 October 2012 (UTC)